NEX-VG30 or traditional camcorder?

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Werner Graf

I dont know what else can do 50p - with this price? Canon C100 Canon XF 300 PMW1/3/200 nope

Many sub 1000 dollar camera can do 50p these days, even my cx730 has that option. It is a fact that 50p slows down much better then 25p without any twixtor tricks. Slowing down 25p 50% looks like crap, 50p otoh still gives you a smooth motion.

[Noa Put]

One more thing: Why Are We So Obsessed with Camera Specs?

I"m not a "specs" technical kind of guy, I only look at the result without sticking my face against a lcd screen, I have been working with 50p for a few months now and it took me a while to find the best workflow and now I"m very happy with it. Many might complain about the fact that it looks like video instead of film but when I film in 25p or 50p with the same camera it all looks the same for me, only that with 25p I need to take care of my camera movements (like slow panning) while with 50p I don't. My impression with 25p is also that the camera has more focusing issues if you shoot in auto mode while in 50i or 50p that's not the case.
I now get very sharp dvd output without any judder issues while panning, all looks smooth in motion. Also blu-ray output or when I output for web use it all looks good.
When shooting fast action 50p is certainly an advantage, especially compared to 25p since you get smoother motion, better results when slowing footage down and possible better autofocus capabilities if you don't or can't focus manually. The bitrate is also higher when the camera shoots at 1080p 50p in the avchd codec, whether that's delivers an advantage in image quality I don't know but I bet anyone obsessed with cameraspecs does know an answer to that :)

[Werner Graf]

[QUOTE=Jay Morrissette;1760256]I want to make a little documentary about people who like to take their sports cars to race tracks.

My tip is Sony PMW-200

Sony PMW-200

http://www.xdcam-user.com/2012/07/50...-sony-pmw-200/

[Glen Vandermolen]

[quote=Werner Graf;1761105]

Originally Posted by Jay Morrissette

I want to make a little documentary about people who like to take their sports cars to race tracks.

My tip is Sony PMW-200

Sony PMW-200

50 Megabits for the masses, the new Sony PMW-200. |

It would help to know the OP's camera budget, but I'm guessing it's around the $2-3,000 mark. That may be why the VG30 is under consideration.

[Jay Morrissette]

That does look like a great camera, but it is about twice what I want to spend. I would like to stay under $3000.

I would prefer to own the camera with a good multi-purpose lens, and then rent special lenses if I need to.

Speaking of bit rates and codecs, how do you think a vg-20 with an Atomos Ninga would compare to the PMW-200?

~Jay

[Werner Graf]

I have a VG 20 too but the AF is far from very good is is Contrast mode only. I think Atomos is just waisted money for the VG 20 no real better quality possible.
Dont know if you want do slowmo then PWM 200 is good - otherwise you can go for a PMW1 used about 3.5k$, wich is real Camcorder.
Google or Ebay for used PMW and in this forum infos about PMW1 series
Sony XDCAM EX CineAlta Forum at DVinfo.net

[Werner Graf]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Many sub 1000 dollar camera can do 50p these days, even my cx730 has that option. It is a fact that 50p slows down much better then 25p without any twixtor tricks. Slowing down 25p 50% looks like crap, 50p otoh still gives you a smooth motion.

FCP X is so cheap & good for Slowmo has Optical flow down to 1% built in

Final Cut Pro X Optical Flow Tutorial - YouTube

Many sub 1000 dollar camera are 1 Chip cams and are Handycams = Socker Moms things

Here something mo better than a 1 Chip Handycam
http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/15/p...nal-camcorder/

[Noa Put]

This only works well if you have a sky background like in the youtube example but is useless if you have a lot of small detail going on in the background. 50p you can slow down 50% without having to take anything into consideration and without any side effect.
Also a camera having just one chip doesn't mean it's worse then a 3 chipper, there are enough (semi) professional one chip camera's around that prove otherwise. That a handycam is by definition a "Socker Mom thing" is right but the quality these high end handicams output is more then sufficient to even produce professional results, only not in the hands of a "socker mam". :)

[Dave Blackhurst]

There is quite a difference by adding 60p - while the data rate isn't doubled, it is increased (28 vs. 24 Mbps). The added data stream and the complete frames definitely make for a better source file to work with, and better results overall. Slo-mo and pulled stills both benefit.

Even some of the Sony P&S cams have 60p and will give good results if used in the right situations. The Alpha SLT's also added 60p this model year... I look for it as a "standard" feature, as the results look better, although some programs struggle with handling it (oddly including Sony's own "consumer" file management/viewer PMB/PMH programs...).

As for "soccer mom cams" - those are now more likely CELL PHONE CAMS (whole FLOCKS of them!), and they may well have pretty good HD quality video too, if properly handled.

It is as it has always been - it is not the aquisition device, it is the operator... and there are so many "good enough" to excellent "aquisition devices" at crazy cheap price points, it's all about the shooter and the grip gear, and lighting and sound, and talent... oh yeah, and CONTENT.

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Werner Graf

Here something mo better than a 1 Chip Handycam
Panasonic AG-AC90 professional camcorder: three CMOS sensors in a handheld package for $2,250 -- Engadget

And then again, a 1 chip xf100 might output a better image then the 3 chip ag ac90, I have seen some pre- production footage from the panasonic and while it certainly is a good featured camera at a very aggressive pricepoint, I saw it didn't handle highlights very well which looked like something more panasonic camera's suffer from. Having a 3 cmos sensor is no guarantee anymore these day for good image quality, there is much more involved like the technology behind it, the codec and certainly, like Dave pointed out, the operator.

I had been looking at a lot of vg20 footage on Vimeo in the past and many looked like crap, some just ok and just a few very good, it's the same camera so it has to be the operator that makes the difference.

[Laurence Janus]

Originally Posted by Jay Morrissette

I want to make a little documentary about people who like to take their sports cars to race tracks.
...
My question, is, can I keep the subject, a speeding car, in focus easily? Can the depth of field be deep enough to show context such as the other cars around it?

Focus is a real problem, especially with the cheap lens I was using in the very soft video below. My SSM lenses are much better and I wish I had time to get my tripod setup!

Stewy C33 :: K-Tours Osaka :: Bihoku (Nov 2012) - YouTube

Originally Posted by Jay Morrissette

For audio I have a DR40 and access to some good lav and shotgun mics.

I have a DR40 too... the dual recording function is great as cars are really loud. But I need to buy some kind of dead cat for it as I got a lot of wind noise.

Originally Posted by Ryan Douthit

Since a 200mm lens (70-200) is a 370mm on an A77 or about a 320mm on a VG30, I don't think you need anything longer. Having the flexibility of a f2.8 is more useful for 99% of the shots you'll be doing than going with a slower 400mm.

We will just have to agree to disagree about this point. I went to a small circuit called Bihoku Highlands and borrowed a friend's Tamron 18-270 and it was probably just enough. If I went to a proper racing circuit I would definitely want the 400mm for my A77.

[Ryan Douthit]

Originally Posted by Laurence Janus

We will just have to agree to disagree about this point. I went to a small circuit called Bihoku Highlands and borrowed a friend's Tamron 18-270 and it was probably just enough. If I went to a proper racing circuit I would definitely want the 400mm for my A77.

I guess I should have qualified my opinion, it depends strictly on both the course layout and access to the course when its hot. I usually shoot pretty close to the track.

[HOONIGAN] Race Car on Fire? Ken Block #AINTCARE, Presses on During Rally-X Race. - YouTube