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Old March 9th, 2011, 07:48 AM   #31
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Re: lower cost AVCHD cam for wideshots to complement the NX5U?

Hi Chris I am starting to ask myself the same questions about my NX5U. The real difference is the fulll manaul control on real buttons and rings. Trying to change things going through the menus on the consumer cams will not cut it. However if you run all the time in automatic then they are great and why have a NX5U for full automatic operation anyway. I would certainly get a new NX type cam if it was like a NX5U with the CX700 inside. Is all the controls of the NX5U but the internals of the CX700. Large single chip "R" sensor would be fine with a bigger lens. Maybe this will appear soon ?

Most output is interlace for Bluray and DVD so may as well stay in interlace. CX700 60p is the same 28mbps as the Panasonic and of course is needed to record both fields for the frame and may actually be a higher compression than the interlaced at 24mbps. Not sure how the facts turn out about picture quality from both approaches. I instinctively feel that a full frame would require somewhat less than twice the data of an interlace frame. In this case there are twice as many pixels and only about 20% more data. The big advantage for the consumer is that they can playback on their LCD TV without any deinterlacing artifacts.

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Old March 15th, 2011, 03:04 PM   #32
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As always, Ron is the voice of reason.

I want to expand on Chris's comment: "I'm currently thinking that the new CX700 with the advancded controls seems to be an NX5 killer IMO. It almost has me considering selling her. I'm starting to question the need for a 5000$ ProCamcorder when their consumer line seems to get the job done and almost surpass their pro line for under 1500$!! "

There is a lot of personal preference in that statement. Which is as it should be.

That said, it seems to me that the CX cams are only "NX killers" when you have segregated your actual needs and interests from the insidious effects of the gear snobbery --- to which we all sometimes fall prey --- and concluded that your video work does not require the flexibility (and accompanying bulk) of the NX cams.

For me, the NX and CX cams are simply different tools and I use them accordingly. Where I might see the NX controls and functions as necessary tools for some jobs, they just get in the way at other times. Sometimes, the CX does everything I need, so that is the cam I use..

If the CX cams give you everything you want, then there really is no reason to pay three times the amount of money to get a much bigger and more complex NX cam. Alternatively, if you like multi-cam shooting, you can buy three CX700 cams for about what it costs to buy a single NX. .Whether this is a good deal or not depends on what you do, what you want to do, and how you want to do it.

I basically reach for my NX when I need the 20x zoom; when I want the XLR, LPCM audio recording, and audio fllexibility; where I'm shooting in varying light where the smooth gain and white balance switching.will be important; where I want to be able to separately control shutter speed, iris, and gain, and the ability to use all of them while manually focusing; and, sometimes, all of the above. I find these functions important for some stage shoots and recording musical performances and some weddings. On the other hand, when I'm recording a meeting or focus group in even and unchanging lighting, all that functional flexibility does not matter. all I need is to feed audio through an XLR adapter to an unobtrusive CX cam stashed out of the way. (Unless, of course, my customer suffers from gear snobbery and I need to bring the NX so they feel they are getting professional work.)

I've shot a couple of weddings recently which could have been captured with what Philip Howells called, in a thread in the events and weddings forum, a security cam approach. (You deploy an array of small fixed cams around the room -- call it a "RAIC" for redundant array of inexpensive cams with which you "rake" a lot of video.) I've done other recent weddings where the reception lighting was weird and troublesome for my CX cams but easily handled with the NX.

So, for me, I see the CX700 not as an "NX killer" but as a complementary tool where they work well together and each does jobs the other cannot do as well or as conveniently..
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Old March 15th, 2011, 04:15 PM   #33
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Re: lower cost AVCHD cam for wideshots to complement the NX5U?

Very good points Jay i dont think you could have said it any better personally! I should have been more thorough in my post also knowing it would start controversy! When i stated "NX Killer" it was honestly just out of frustration.

You are absolutely right in all of your points, and i'm happy you pointed out gear snobbery as thats one of the points i should have included. You've actually convinced me to keep my camera! I guess i just needed to hear it shouted out loud from someone who loves their NX as much as i do. To be honest the 1 thing i'm upset about is 1080 60p but as you said this is where a CX can be used as a tool rather than a replacement. I'm praying for a Firmware update that i honestly know will never come due to hardware limitations.

Batman Killer? Definately not! Right hand man Robin to the rescue! :D Thanks again Jay
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Old March 15th, 2011, 09:44 PM   #34
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Re: lower cost AVCHD cam for wideshots to complement the NX5U?

Just a further update...that as a result of the comments on this forum, I did purchase a new CX560 from B&H which is coming tomorrow. I have a paid gig that requires two cameras the first week of April, a panel conference, and it will allow me to use the zoom reach of the NX5U and leave wideshots to the CX560. After I gain more time with multi-camera shoots and how they cut together, I'll report back with an update.

Thanks to all...John
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Old March 16th, 2011, 03:01 AM   #35
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Re: lower cost AVCHD cam for wideshots to complement the NX5U?

John, I hope (which I believe) you will be happy with your choice. I would recommend you read Ron Evans comments, he is the one who probably has most experience in using this type of camera and the NX5U together. Ron always provide valuable informations such as which setups (gain, spot camera...) he makes for each of his cameras when filming his theatre shows.

Next challenge, after filming the multi-cam event will be the post-prod. Which computing platforms are you using ?

Well keep us posted !
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Old March 16th, 2011, 03:28 PM   #36
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Re: lower cost AVCHD cam for wideshots to complement the NX5U?

I've had recent success matching a NX5 and MC50 when using Picture Profile 6 on the NX5. Contrast & sharpness very similar. Do note my use for multi cams is usually indoors at weddings.
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Old April 17th, 2011, 08:55 PM   #37
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Re: lower cost AVCHD cam for wideshots to complement the NX5U?

I was updating this thread now that I have had experience shooting with the new Sony CX560 as an inexpensive second camera to be used in multiple camera shoots with the NX5U.

I shot some concert footage of a British chorale group who were on a North American tour...finishing up with a concert in La Jolla, CA. Their record label is Harmonia Mundi...and they hired me to shoot several new songs which will be edited with some voiceover and will go up on some popular video sites as promotional pieces later in June.

The CX560 was a locked off wideshot camera and I was manning the NX5U as a closeup camera. They were both synced with a simple clapboard and the footage is now being edited in Final Cut Pro's multicam mode.

First, I will say right off the bat that the resolution and clarity of the CX560 is stunning (I never imagined a camera so small could look so good)...and it cuts very well with the NX5U. I took one of the picture profiles in the NX5U and tweaked it to match the look of the CX560 (as the 560 doesn't really have tweakable profiles itself). I recorded the 560's footage to its own built-in flash drive. It takes SD cards but there is no way on that model to do a simul record like you can do with the NX5U.

All AVCHD footage was recorded in 1080 60i and converted to ProRes.

So for my very limited use of this camera as a locked off wideshot (in June I'll be shooting some panel conferences with it), it certainly delivers great footage...and is a viable second camera in those kind of situations with the NX.

Ron Evans owns the next higher up model, the CX700, which adds additional features. And I know he's impressed with the results he has been getting.

So if you are on a shoot with your NX5U and you need a second camera...for around 1K the CX models can give you great results under certain conditions. Unless, of course, you can afford a to buy a second NX5U...or it's less expensive cousin just revealed at the NAB....I think 3K?

Thanks for those that contributed to this thread...and I feel very good about the purchase and how it complements the NX5U...John
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Old April 17th, 2011, 09:13 PM   #38
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Re: lower cost AVCHD cam for wideshots to complement the NX5U?

Thanks John for taking the time to provided us valuable information on your experience in using the CX560 camera in support with your NX5U.

Like other, I am very happy to read you are finding these two cameras complement well each other.

As per your editing with Final Cut Pro (multicam). What type of computing environment (computing, hard drive) are you using? Did it lag in some places or did you find the video editing to be smooth?

Are you using ProRes LT ?

Regards!
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Old April 18th, 2011, 11:46 AM   #39
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Re: lower cost AVCHD cam for wideshots to complement the NX5U?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Vasey View Post
So if you are on a shoot with your NX5U and you need a second camera...for around 1K the CX models can give you great results under certain conditions. Unless, of course, you can afford a to buy a second NX5U...or it's less expensive cousin just revealed at the NAB....I think 3K?
The expensive cousin is, I believe, the NX70 which is supposed to ship in July. B&H currently expects it to sell for $3200 ($US). See this link.

Sony HXR-NX70U NXCAM Compact Camcorder HXR-NX70U B&H Photo Video


This appears to be the Sony Broadcast Division's replacement for the now-venerable A1u. It seems to be based on the CX700 platform but in a slightly bigger package. It has functions on buttons (as opposed to menus alone), a usable lens-mounted control ring, XLR connections and manual audio functions, and the ability to shoot 1080/60p.. It also has an interesting ability to survive abuse --- postings from NAB have shown one of these in a fish-tank being showered by water. Even if it is not exactly Chris Adefaya's "NX5 killer," it seems to be economically attractive enough to give pause to anyone considering an AX2000. For those doing multi-cam shoots, an NX70 partnered with some CX560s or CX700s, looks very attractive. It will be $300 ($US) less than the current price of the AX2000 while also coming with a usable external shotgun mike and the progressive shooting modes. At $1500 less than an FMU equipped NX5, it may be very attractive to those who do not feel the need for the high-degree of manual adjustability and control available on the NX5. Makes one wonder what an NX6 will be.

While Sony also is currently selling the shoulder-mounted HXR-MC2000, that camera seems to be in a lesser league. The attraction is the "pro-appearing" shoulder-mount package with XLR connections. However, while one would have thought it based on the CX550, it turns out instead to be based on the less capable CX360. It has the ¼ inch sensor rather than 1/3 inch sensor (less low-light capability), a 12x zoom (trading off a minor increase in zoom range for the loss of the the significantly wider wide-end of the zoom on the CX550), and uses the smaller 2.7 inch view screen of the CX550.
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Old April 18th, 2011, 01:27 PM   #40
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Re: lower cost AVCHD cam for wideshots to complement the NX5U?

Note that the MC2000 does not, in fact, have XLR connections. It's just like the HD1000 in that regard.
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Last edited by Adam Gold; April 18th, 2011 at 02:47 PM.
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Old April 18th, 2011, 04:04 PM   #41
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Re: lower cost AVCHD cam for wideshots to complement the NX5U?

Sony always seems to give something and take back something !!! All my cameras are Sony by the way. Having just got the CX700 the comparison with what I know of the NX70 is interesting. The control button on the CX700 will select and control the following focus, exposure, iris, shutter speed, AE shift, White shift. On the NX70 we have a ring that only controls focus, zoom and iris with a button for one shot focus, iris ( presumable auto /manual), expanded focus ( which can be set to be automatic on the CX700 and histogram ( not on the CX700). To me lots of useful things have now gone from controls to the menu. I use AE shift a lot so that is something I would really miss. Expanded focus button is in line with the NX5U but I like the automode on the CX700 if I am going to use manual focus at all preferring spot focus, which is on the menu of course!!! At first I thought that I had got the CX700 too quickly and thought the NX70 would have been better . Other than the weather proofing I am now not sure I would switch from the CX700 that I could buy three of for the same price as the NX70 !!!

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Old April 18th, 2011, 04:12 PM   #42
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Re: lower cost AVCHD cam for wideshots to complement the NX5U?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Paquin View Post
Thanks John for taking the time to provided us valuable information on your experience in using the CX560 camera in support with your NX5U.

Like other, I am very happy to read you are finding these two cameras complement well each other.

As per your editing with Final Cut Pro (multicam). What type of computing environment (computing, hard drive) are you using? Did it lag in some places or did you find the video editing to be smooth?

Are you using ProRes LT ?

Regards!
Multicam editing in FCP 7.0.3 is done on a 3-4 year old Mac Pro with a La Cie D2 Quadra drive via FW800. For both cameras the ProRes 422 files are the standard ones and they are one the same La Cie drive together.

I also have a Matrox LE unit that helps provide CPU relief on video playback when Final Cut Pro is toggled to "Dynamic Resolution." The multicam edit will play all the way through including dissolves without stopping -- including one color correction filter each. Though if I start to pile on many more filters, etc., I will probably start to encounter some issues at some point.

But so far it's all been very good and seems to run quite smoothly...John
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Old April 18th, 2011, 05:09 PM   #43
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Re: lower cost AVCHD cam for wideshots to complement the NX5U?

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Originally Posted by Adam Gold View Post
Note that the MC2000 does not, in fact, have XLR connections. It's just like the HD1000 in that regard.
Adam is correct. The camera is in even a lesser league.

Last edited by Jay West; April 19th, 2011 at 05:02 PM.
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