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Old August 9th, 2011, 04:29 PM   #1
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NX5U grainy picture possibly resolved with Plugin

Hey everyone!

I have been reading up a lot lately on the issue with a lot of noise from my NX5. not only is it caused from this camera but i have also read this is just an issue in most 1/3 inch cameras. i have came across this plugin called "Neat Video" here is the link to the website: Neat Video - best noise reduction for digital video

If anyone has ever used this i would love to hear what you have to say about it! i am going to give the demo a try when i can find some time and see what i think with the ending result. i will gladly inform you guys on my thoughts.
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Old August 9th, 2011, 06:20 PM   #2
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Re: NX5U grainy picture possibly resolved with Plugin

I have read other posts here on Dvinfo that Neat video works very well though I have never used it so I cant vouch for it personally.

I have found that if you want a noise free image straight out of the camera, you need to keep the gain at minus 6 or minus 3...anything above that will typically produce grain. I personally find anything over plus 6 to be unacceptable and perhaps that's when Neat video may become a valuable tool.
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Old August 10th, 2011, 01:32 AM   #3
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Re: NX5U grainy picture possibly resolved with Plugin

Neat Video is one of the most popular plug-ins around for noise reduction. One good trick that I like is to add some noise to the image after exposure/color correction, but before applying Neat Video. This works to maintain the edges of objects/subjects while removing the grain from their surfaces. Just don't overdo it on either the noise addition or reduction.

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Old August 11th, 2011, 01:47 AM   #4
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Re: NX5U grainy picture possibly resolved with Plugin

i just installed the demo version.. and let me say it is quite a dramatic difference in picture quality! i was absolutely blown away by how much grain it took away in the shot! im still very confused to why i had grain in my shot in the first place when i was shooting with -6db of gain...? and suggestions to why this would be? All this time i thought that it was the way i was exporting my footage from final cut.. but sure enough it is the 4,000 camera doing it.. i am speechless and kinda feel let down by my camera that this is occurring.
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Old August 11th, 2011, 03:34 PM   #5
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Re: NX5U grainy picture possibly resolved with Plugin

I use the neat video plugin, it does work really well, Only down side is the huge render times for me in Premiere.


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Old August 12th, 2011, 04:51 PM   #6
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Re: NX5U grainy picture possibly resolved with Plugin

yeah that is one thing that i have noticed with using the demo in final cut. but IMO the wait was well worth it. i am just curious to if the graininess is caused by the compression of the AVCHD codec? you guys think that if i was recording uncompressed out of the HDMI or SDI port, you think that since it would be recording at higher quality that it might reduce the grain?
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Old August 12th, 2011, 06:37 PM   #7
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Re: NX5U grainy picture possibly resolved with Plugin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Butir View Post
i am just curious to if the graininess is caused by the compression of the AVCHD codec? you guys think that if i was recording uncompressed out of the HDMI or SDI port, you think that since it would be recording at higher quality that it might reduce the grain?
Are you using manual settings or auto? I only ask because I have two NX5s and shoot in full manual and as long as both cameras are set at -6db or -3db I don't have any problems with grain...so I don't think your problem is necessarily that of compression issues from the AVCHD codec. Both of my cameras give a very clean image. Just shooting in the dark but it's possible that it may be related to a combination of settings your using.

Last edited by Michael Bray; August 12th, 2011 at 08:43 PM.
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Old August 13th, 2011, 02:38 AM   #8
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Re: NX5U grainy picture possibly resolved with Plugin

Hey Michael,

When i am shooting with the NX5 i always keep it on manual at all times. i also always do keep it at -3 to -6db on most cases when i can get away with it. i really cant seem to figure out what would be causing this grain to just show up.. i dont know if it is the screen that i am viewing it on or what? ( i use an 24inch iMac with the resolution of 1920x1200) so i dont know if that is playing a factor in this.. although i am kind of picky it seems that i only notice this when i am right on top of the monitor but if i happen to sit back further i dont notice it at all. it may just be the way that the monitor displays it.

I thought i should ask, what software do you use? if fcp what are your export settings? i would be curious to be able to compare them to my settings. I also have premiere Pro handy on a different computer if u happen to use that.

Thanks,
Mike
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Old August 13th, 2011, 07:21 PM   #9
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Re: NX5U grainy picture possibly resolved with Plugin

Have you tried connecting your camera to an HDTV via HDMI? This will at least let you see the image as you tweak your settings and determine if the grain is present before importing into your NLE, or if it shows up after export. I'm using premiere CS5 and usually export using the h.264 Blu-ray or MPEG Blu-ray presets. I typically shoot at 1920x1080 30p FX mode, manual everything, shutter speed of 1/30, and use PP1 with gamma set to x.v. and detail set to +2. When I first purchased the cameras I was pissed at the results of the video quality. I had heard many people say what a great camera this was and that it was great in low light...needless to say, I was disappointed with my initial results. After weeks of drilling down the menus and settings I have found this to be a very capable camera that produces a great image. I know this is probably a dumb question, as I'm certain your're in manual mode but have you checked to make sure the AGC isn't kicking up and causing your grain. Short of that, I'm running out of ideas for you. Rest assured however, that the NX5 does indeed shoot very clean grain free images.
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Old August 13th, 2011, 10:02 PM   #10
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Re: NX5U grainy picture possibly resolved with Plugin

Okay so i just did another test while shooting at -6db of gain and used your picture profile settings you suggested and i exported it in premiere pro with the "mpeg blue ray" preset and it seemed to be the same picture that i was getting while exporting from FCP. i seem to only notice the graininess when i am up close to my iMac and up close to my HDTV via HDMI. But the further i back i go it is gone. although i have a older sony bravia LCD HDTV so its not the best display to view stuff like this on.

another question i have is why does the gain info not show up in play back when i have a picture profile on? but when i record something with picture profile off the gain is displayed? any thoughts? i also have AGC set to off
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Old August 14th, 2011, 08:33 AM   #11
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Re: NX5U grainy picture possibly resolved with Plugin

Data code shows everything in playback on my NX5U and I use several profiles for different things.

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Old August 14th, 2011, 02:43 PM   #12
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Re: NX5U grainy picture possibly resolved with Plugin

well data code shows up but just the gain doesnt show up.. what would cause that?
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Old August 14th, 2011, 03:03 PM   #13
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Re: NX5U grainy picture possibly resolved with Plugin

Is it just the gain missing? There are 3 pages of data code. Date and time, camera information and GPS info. Do you see all these?

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Old August 14th, 2011, 03:03 PM   #14
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Re: NX5U grainy picture possibly resolved with Plugin

I do not notice noisy images but I have detail set low, crispening set and other detail features set and keep gain negative if possible.

Do you have detail set high? Are you boosting gain in FCP?

Avoid gain in FCP - Adam Wilt said in a review of this camcorder that "boosting gain after the fact in Final Cut Pro gave me comparable noise".

Noise (grain) is often increased in dark areas with increases in detail. It seems that many people want to shoot with greater detail --- I like the look of lower detail settings (as do females that I film)... :-) but then I like the look of old movies from 1920s and 30s (and Black and White). I actually set detail to -7 most of the time.

Greater detail should not always be used for low luminance signals.

You should test all adjustments by using a video monitor --- you may find that increased detail can show too much on large screens.

You can set detail manually on the NX5U to set additonal features:

--- V/H Balance - Selects the balance of the lower DETAIL (B) and the upper DETAIL (W). TYPE 1 (off to the lower DETAIL (B) side) to TYPE 5 (off to the upper DETAIL (W) side)

--- B/W Balance

--- Black Limit - ***set upper limit for detail in dark areas

--- White Limit - ***set upper limit for detail in bright areas

--- Crispening - Crispening can help coarsening of overall image. When you set it to a higher level, less noise may be seen, as fine elements of details are deleted leaving only high-level elements.

--- Hi-light Detail
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Old August 14th, 2011, 08:47 PM   #15
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Re: NX5U grainy picture possibly resolved with Plugin

Ron,

Yes just the gain seems to be the only one missing. everything else shows my iris ect. i dont know what is causing this.. and yes i see all three menus on there as well.
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