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Sony NXCAM / AVCHD Camcorders
Sony HXR-NX100, HXR-NX70, NX30, NX5, NX3/1, HXR-MC2500, HDR-AX2000, etc.


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Old July 6th, 2012, 09:09 AM   #1
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Cinematone

Is this just a chroma boost, or does Cinematone change gamma etc?
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Old July 6th, 2012, 10:26 AM   #2
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Re: Cinematone

Here is one answer from a Sony Q&A board: "It is used to record images with the gamma curve similar to that of film cameras. Rich and distinctive images are reproduced with white clipping of highlighted areas reduced.
Also, reproducing the detail of skin tone is improved by maintaining detail in the middle tones and highlights which are superior to the standard gamma curve."

I make my adjustments in post but I will say having worked with the FS100 some of these Cinematone profiles look pretty good. It all depends on what you're shooting and the look you want? My recommendation is look at the image on a decent field monitor before committing.
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Old July 6th, 2012, 11:12 AM   #3
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Re: Cinematone

I think the cinematone on the fs100 is a bit different than on the NX70. On my CX560
which is the same(ish) vintage as the NX70 the cinematone lifts the gamma but does
not change hue or saturation according the vectorscope on my NLE software.
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Old August 8th, 2012, 03:27 PM   #4
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Re: Cinematone

Wow, I was a bit blown away today when I received my 70u. I decided to go with it at a $ 2799 price with a $300 rebate.

Why was I blown away ? I had no idea that the camera had no way to adjust saturation, sharpness or contrast. This had been a primary complaint I had with my VG20, and because this one was deemed a more professional level camera, I assumed it had some capability of making those adjustments.

Am I wrong, have I missed something somewhere ?
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Old August 8th, 2012, 04:57 PM   #5
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Re: Cinematone

Chris,

There's no picture profile adjustment at all on the NX70. Apart from Cinematone on/off.

What on earth were Sony thinking of?
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Old August 8th, 2012, 05:25 PM   #6
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Re: Cinematone

Sony strikes again!

Man, they really want to protect the FS100 sales, don't they?

For what it's worth, Cinetone on the VG20 seems to slightly crush the blacks and lower over all brightness.... And that's about it.
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Old August 8th, 2012, 07:18 PM   #7
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Re: Cinematone

Darn, I was sure hoping I missed something. I'll give it a day or two, to see if I think its worth it.... But it may be going back.

Sony, its getting harder to be in love with you.........
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Old August 9th, 2012, 03:50 AM   #8
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Re: Cinematone

One thing you may wish to consider is getting hold of a number of good quality ND filters. The sweet spot for the NX70 is F4 and to avoid truly awful diffraction effects, the iris must not close beyond that point. A number of users have promoted variable ND filters, such as the Polaroid, having tried one I can confirm that it certainly reduces light well enough, but also Polarises & produces a strong colour shift across the frame! Thinking about it, they work by using two linear polarisers, so it's hardly surprising there's a colour shift!
Back to the NDs - Tiffen have been REALLY helpful in sourcing 37mm NDs which are not part of their standard offerings (ND 1.2 to ND2.0). B+W is also a quality manufacturer, as is anything using Schott glass.
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Old August 9th, 2012, 04:04 AM   #9
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Re: Cinematone

My experience of the Polaroid ND was exactly the same. It worked well physically (especially after modifying the lens hood so it would fit under it), but everything became a bit, well, brown. I used it once in anger, and never again.

I have a collection of B+W NDs, and they do a great job. The only thing is the hassle factor of putting them on and off in a hurry. I had to buy some of them from a German retailer, they're not easy to find in the UK. Thank goodness for Google translate.

I have a Lightcraft Workshop 37mm fader ND, but it's hopeless with the wide angle of the NX70 with really bad vingetting.

For ultimate ND, I have a Cavision 3x3 mattebox with some really good Formatt NDs, but that's neither portable nor cheap!

Last edited by Mike Beckett; August 9th, 2012 at 05:58 AM.
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Old August 9th, 2012, 03:09 PM   #10
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Re: Cinematone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos View Post
Sony, its getting harder to be in love with you.........
In that pricerange I think you should have gone for the canon xf100.
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Old August 9th, 2012, 08:25 PM   #11
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Re: Cinematone

I may be there yet, Noa

A number of things factored into my decision, including rebates, potential for mixing footage with the VG20, and the budgetary impact of the potential of going to with the Black Magic cinema rig, and what actual needs for this camera were. Ultimately, a $ 600 difference (after a $300 rebate) in new rig seemed like a pretty good deal. It turns out this camera is very much the same camera as my VG20, but with and XLR adapter, and smaller chip. The whole interface seems pretty much the same.
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Old August 10th, 2012, 12:05 AM   #12
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Re: Cinematone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos View Post
I had no idea that the camera had no way to adjust saturation, sharpness or contrast. This had been a primary complaint I had with my VG20, and because this one was deemed a more professional level camera, I assumed it had some capability of making those adjustments.
I just added an A57 to my lineup, oddly enough at $619 the 'creative styles' transfer into video mode. That means that contrast, saturation, and sharpness are selectable each from -3 to + 3 (includes 5 customizable presets + B&W).

Sony sure is weird.
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Old August 10th, 2012, 03:47 AM   #13
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Re: Cinematone

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Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos View Post
I may be there yet, Noa
:) I just referred to the xf100 because here it's about the same price but the camera seems to have more control over the image. With the Sony it's" what you see you get", I do have a cx730 which imagewise should be the same as the nx70 and was planning to get another nx70/xf100 or even have been thinking about the vg20, as long as they are small and light camera's. The xf100 image might be too difficult to match with the sony but I know the nx70 image would not, it would fit right out of the box.

I honestly don't mind that I have no controll over the image because it's factory configured just how I like it to be, It's flat enough to leave room in post to CC. Only the price of the nx70 is quite steep, for a bit more I can get a panasonic ag ac130 but that's a real bulky camera. That's why I was thinking of the vg20 as it's about 1500 dollar cheaper over here but I read quite some negative reports about it. I actually want a second camera where I can hold the viewfinders eyecup up against my eye when handheld shooting. I don't really need xlr connectivity because I got a beachtek adapter for that with my cx730.

Can I ask you Chris, what's the quality of the viewfinders screen? Is is large and sharp for easy focussing? And what about the viewfinder, is that good for focussing? Are you in general satisfied about this camera?
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Old August 10th, 2012, 04:32 AM   #14
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Re: Cinematone

Well Noa, I bought the camera because nearly all my shooting is on or near the sea, & I'm tired of replacing my small cameras every year because of corrosion... The NX70 is the only camera I know of that offers a moderate amount of weather sealing & so far it's working!
The screen & viewfinder are just about adequate, in my opinion. Bright daylight will force you to use the viewfinder which offers a good eyecup & smallish image. Expanded focus helps confirm focus but the peaking, even in "low" mode is a bit crude.
Overall I quite like the camera. I've started using Cinematone, as it allows me greater control in colour correction. The Active steadyshot is good, although you loose sharpness as it crops the frame. The golden rule is to keep an eye on the iris - F4 or below.
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Old August 10th, 2012, 04:55 AM   #15
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Re: Cinematone

Quote:
The golden rule is to keep an eye on the iris - F4 or below.
Do you use an ND filter to be able to do that? Without that the only option left is use the shutterspeed, I have the same issue on my cx730, in general you don't notice these often very high shutterspeeds outside, only when they trow rice at a wedding as you can see every single rice grain :)
I"m looking into an option to screw on an nd filter but am not sure which type to get.
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