Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony NXCAM / AVCHD Camera Systems > Sony NXCAM HXR-NX70U


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 5th, 2012, 04:52 AM   #16
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Central VA
Posts: 151
Re: Sony NX70 vs Sony 550V differences

Yes, the camera shake was very prominent in that clip since it was a rough edit. Luckily, the final video was cleaned of all of that. I was ill when I shot this particular concert and had I known how badly my hands were shaking, I would have enabled the steadyshot function. Also, this show is an extreme example. The lighting (as Bryan pointed out), is uneven and I am forced to be much farther away from the stage than I would like.

Bryan, I'm not sure if the CX500's have the capability to display current setting info in real time. Quite honestly, I have been using both of them in full auto and leaving them that way. Only about 1 in 10 tapings require me to make any color adjustment to those two in post. The main issue is the graininess and muted colors of the NX70. It would be a shame, but I may have to follow Matt's advice and set the NX70 as the wide shot and use one of the CX500's for closeups and pans.

I should also note that this video was shot prior to sending the camera back to Sony. While they couldn't find any major problems, they did make a few adjustments and blamed the rest on "conflicting settings". I'll do some experimenting on keeping the gain to a reasonable level. 21db just seems way too high.

I edited a play yesterday that I rcorded using this same setup (less one of the CX500's), and I didn't need to make ANY adjustments in post. I wish I had noted what settings the NX70 was using at the time.
There's a couple of clips from that on my FB page:
https://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!...ns/35765855876
Rey Lowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2012, 05:47 AM   #17
New Boot
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Orlando, Fl
Posts: 21
Re: Sony NX70 vs Sony 550V differences

Keep in mind you are likely mixing interlaced footage with progressive. As far as the gain settings for each camera the amount of light needed for say a 1/30 of a second exposure vs a 1/60th would be roughly 1/2. So for a 1/30 shutter speed the gain would not need to be as high as the 1/60 exposure. If we think of the sensor as a light bucket the longer we let light fall on it the less gain we need. Since we are not shooting sports here the exposure time can be lengthened without creating much motion blur. My guess is we are not apples to apples here with a straight comparison.
Bryan Scott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2012, 05:52 AM   #18
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Central VA
Posts: 151
Re: Sony NX70 vs Sony 550V differences

Good points, Bryan. Just FYI - all three cams are shooting 60i.
Rey Lowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2012, 11:50 AM   #19
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,228
Re: Sony NX70 vs Sony 550V differences

Looks like the NX70 was not in sharp focus and it's black level is higher than the CX550's. Same characteristics I see with my NX5U if I am not very careful about focus. Did you have the NX70 in auto focus or manual focus. The wider shots in auto focus would be at infinity and will always look sharp for that lens. My CX700 focuses better if it can lock onto a face or seems more consistent in manual focus.

Ron Evans
Ron Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2012, 12:01 PM   #20
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Central VA
Posts: 151
Re: Sony NX70 vs Sony 550V differences

For this particular event, the NX70 was in full auto because I was not feeling up to par. Again, not the best example I can give for my issues with it, but I've not had time to get an updated clip readied aside from the one on our FB page.

The CX500's seem to do great on their own in full auto. I'm a "one man band", so I am very limited when it comes to adjusting those on the fly. Although, the wide shot cam is usually locked into manual focus if I have lighting changes to deal with.
Rey Lowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2012, 12:05 PM   #21
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,228
Re: Sony NX70 vs Sony 550V differences

Yes I usually shoot with NX5U, XR500 and CX700. Manually shoot with the NX5U and have XR500 and CX700 set unattended, AE shift usually -4 on the XR500 and full -EV on the CX700 both set with manual spot touch focus after I have set the shot up. They do very well in this mode. My wife sometimes uses the SR11 as a closeup camera too.

Ron Evans
Ron Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2012, 12:10 PM   #22
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Central VA
Posts: 151
Re: Sony NX70 vs Sony 550V differences

Yes. I have no complaints on my two used CX500's. I just need to get this NX70 dialed in. We're not getting along too well so far. Sometimes makes me wish I had my VX2100 back. :)
Rey Lowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2012, 03:39 PM   #23
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Apple Valley CA
Posts: 4,414
Re: Sony NX70 vs Sony 550V differences

Hi Rey -
Glad the CX's are treating you well!

I'm not quite sure why focus on the NX70 looks so soft, I thought it was roughly the same "guts" as the CX700, which is plenty sharp, definitley as capable as the "5xx" series cams, even a tiny bit sharper if you're shooting 60p rom my testing.

One thing is the contrast looked a little "off" - perhaps you need to do an AE shift or the NX equivalent to pull the blacks down - they looked "muddy" rather than "black", and that's not unusual for a "stock" sony exposure. Just using the AE or EV shift will by nature pull back the "gain" the camera will be trying to use, as it's not trying to "overexpose".

The color was also a tad "flat", maybe turn on the x.v. color (don't see it in the CX700 menu, so it may be an "extinct" function?) - supposedly it doesn't make a difference unless you are displaying on a "x.v. capable" device, but I suspect it actually DOES give a little better color "vibe". I also suspect the white balance is a tad off - the skin tones didn't look quite right, probably the source of the rest of the problems.

Does the NX have any of the "consumer-y" face recognition functions, and were they enabled? I'm finding that Sony has really "got the magic" in their facial recognition features, adjusting the cameras for the "best" skin tones and exposure - usually faster and more accurately than I could achieve in "manual" mode.

Just some thoughts that might give you a place to start looking, not very familiar with the NX70 (barely with the CX700), and at the moment trying to wrap my brain around shooting with the SLT-A65 with all the myriad features and lenses and all that "stuff"... my "camera budget" had to go to something that would shoot stills and video, and the A65 seems to pull it off fairly well so far.
Dave Blackhurst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19th, 2012, 12:21 PM   #24
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Central VA
Posts: 151
Re: Sony NX70 vs Sony 550V differences

I've had recital rehearsals all week and have recorded the last two on the NX70 to see how it looks. The first night, I still had a problem with dull colors and some graininess. Last night, I sat there with my tech packet and pen in hand and noted the iris, gain and shutter speed for each performance and made some adjustments along the way to see how the camera reacted. Even after all of that, I don't know the best settings to use.

Tonight, I am going to take Bryan and Matt's advice and place one of the CX500V's right next to the NX70, try to sync the settings as best I can between the two, but also try them in full auto. The NX70 will give me real time readings, but the CX500 will only give me the reading as I play it back. I'll look at both in Vegas and see where we are.

Maybe I'll learn a little something that way.
Rey Lowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19th, 2012, 06:40 PM   #25
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Central VA
Posts: 151
Re: Sony NX70 vs Sony 550V differences

Found that I'm getting a better picture, but still dull colors on the NX70.

Best performance comparison (WB on the CX500V was slightly off since I did not get there in time to do a "one push" setting): CX - vivid colors and little to no graininess/ NX70 a little graininess with dull colors when compared to the CX.

Specs at that time with a moderately lit scene with predominantely blue lighting:
NX70U was at -1.2ev, F3.1(auto), 3-9db gain, 1/30 shutter
CX500V was at -4aes, F2(auto), 6db gain (auto), 1/60 shutter(auto)

Any thoughts?
Rey Lowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19th, 2012, 07:40 PM   #26
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,228
Re: Sony NX70 vs Sony 550V differences

Why do you have the NX70 shutter at 1/30 ? For comparison they should both be set the same. You will get different motion blur so shots may look different as far as sharpness. I always have all my cameras set at 1/60 for theatre/dance shows. I usually set the WB at the default indoor setting too. The NX70 is basically a CX700 and I find that my CX700 is very similar to my XR500. A little better in low light but marginal difference. XR500 has more range on the AE shift though so it performs better on its own unattended. Focus is VERY critical for the closeup shots and my wife usually runs the SR11 for closeups and runs in manual continually using spot focus to pan or zoom as these small Sony's do not hold backfocus at all and need to be refocused each time the zoom is used or panned around for a new shot. I expect the NX70 is the same !!! If you are in auto focus it may decide what to focus on ( may not be what you want) and in manual focus we have found touch spot focus works the best.

Ron Evans
Ron Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19th, 2012, 07:58 PM   #27
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Central VA
Posts: 151
Re: Sony NX70 vs Sony 550V differences

Ron,

I tried the NX70 at both 1/30 & 1/60. I was told to go to 1/30 to keep the gain in a manageable range. I also try to use manual focus whenever possible or spot focus if the situation warrants. Tonight, I just set the two cameras next to each other at the exact same height, zoomed just enough to frame the dancers with plenty of room above their heads and let them roll while making adjustments between numbers to see how they match in post. I really saw no negligible difference between 1/30 and 1/60 on the NX70 in terms of how it looked. It definitely cut back on the gain though.
Rey Lowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19th, 2012, 08:35 PM   #28
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,228
Re: Sony NX70 vs Sony 550V differences

My choice would be to still use 1/60 and open the iris up a little to reduce the gain as I assume you are shooting at 60i anyway. I find that even my NX5U seems to have a sharper picture when the iris is around F2 to F3.4. I too started with the NX5U by using closer to F4 , 1/60 and whatever the gain had to be but now try to stay F3.4 or so and reduced gain. In auto I think you will find the Sony's will try and stay closer to F2 or seem to be wide open at times. I am surprised you find a grain problem with the NX70 as my CX700 has low grain noise even at 18db and at 21db it is still less than the NX5U at 12db !!!

Ron Evans
Ron Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2012, 06:29 AM   #29
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Central VA
Posts: 151
Re: Sony NX70 vs Sony 550V differences

Ron, I'm going to take your advice on the iris and shutter speed settings. Looking back over my notes the past three nights of taping the rehearsals, I'm beginning to think that my issue with this camera is somehow tied to closeups. For the most part, I work with the cam zoomed 80-100%. Perhaps utilizing it differently as a wide angle cam or cutting back on the zoom in conjunction with all of the advice I've received on here will give me better results. Maybe it just loses detail on full zooms?
Rey Lowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2012, 07:05 AM   #30
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,228
Re: Sony NX70 vs Sony 550V differences

Yes focus is VERY critical. At wide angle almost everything is in focus from just in front of the camera to infinity at almost any focus setting !!! But at full zoom just a slight zoom movement and it will go out of focus. A touch of spot focus and you can see the image come into focus again. At least that is the case with all my small Sony cameras as they just will not hold focus through any zooming at the tele end. That is the different in using my NX5U where I can set the focus on the stage once and not bother again throughout the performance though I do keep a check with peaking on all the time and occasional expanded focus. From 65' depth of field covers the whole stage unless I go in for a very tight closeup when I will recheck the focus for that distance, normally it still OK. The difference between consumer cameras and the bottom end of the Pro line.

I would set gain limit at 9db, shutter at 1/60 and then use the exposure on manual ( rather than iris ) so that zebras( 100%) just appear on white subjects but not any faces or skin. This should let the camera choose the best combination of iris and gain. Use touch spot focus frequently and every time you zoom.

ROn Evans
Ron Evans is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Omega Broadcast
(512) 251-7778
Austin, TX

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony NXCAM / AVCHD Camera Systems > Sony NXCAM HXR-NX70U

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 




Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:46 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2014 The Digital Video Information Network