Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom - Page 7 at DVinfo.net

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Sony NXCAM NEX-FS100 CineAlta
An interchangeable lens AVCHD camcorder using E-Mount lenses.


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Old May 4th, 2011, 11:06 PM   #91
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Old May 5th, 2011, 02:16 AM   #92
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Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom

Yes, those buttons on the FS100... like the Z1, there are too many stuck all over it, JVC do much neater job in this regard.

In the end, people on a very low budget will still purchase the DSLRs, otherwise (unless totally obsessed by extremes of shallow DOF) these new cameras give more sensible options for large sensor video production.
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Old May 5th, 2011, 02:57 AM   #93
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Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom

Usability is so important its all very well having a fantastic picture but if you miss the chance not much use is it. According to Phil the Panny and F3 were pretty equal. Problem is the panny may have less than 680 lines of resolution.

An EX1 with Letus has 1000 lines 10 bit out built in ND filters and a full frame and once set up is as usable as the Panny.

If the big chip cameras were made to compete with the DSLR's they do that BUT the EX1 with film adapter still beat the pants of them and you also get the best of all worlds.

Until someone makes a large chip camera with 10 bit out decent resolution and try to include ND filters it will remain that way.

Mark
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Old May 5th, 2011, 03:00 AM   #94
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Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom

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Originally Posted by Mark David Williams View Post

Until someone makes a large chip camera with 10 bit out decent resolution and try to include ND filters it will remain that way.

Mark
It's called the Sony F3 I believe
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Old May 5th, 2011, 03:16 AM   #95
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Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom

True but then the F3 is over 12000
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Old May 5th, 2011, 03:21 AM   #96
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Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom

I'd be surprised if you're actually getting those 1000 lines with an adapter fitted to a EX1. There are other aspects such as noise, sensitivity and dynamic range. For 10 bits the F3 would be the camera in this bunch.

None of these new cameras are perfect, so it'll a matter of selecting those features that are important to you and then accessorising the camera that ticks most boxes.
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Old May 5th, 2011, 08:51 AM   #97
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Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom

First gut impressions:

F3 - superb images as expected but the FS-100 matched this image almost every shot and displayed incredible low-light capability.
AF-101 barely held up against the above but did better than I expected. Horrible low light.
Canon 5D - Good bokeh as expected and low light but overall softer image and lacked punch compared to Sonys.

My gut feeling is that we all buy with a budget - except for James Cameron. So best bang for buck is the FS-100. As far as useability this does present a problem with no ND's and the stupid LCD position - both easily overcome though.

I go for the FS-100 so far....
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Old May 5th, 2011, 09:01 AM   #98
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Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom

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Originally Posted by Mark David Williams View Post
An EX1 with Letus has 1000 lines 10 bit out built in ND filters and a full frame and once set up is as usable as the Panny.

If the big chip cameras were made to compete with the DSLR's they do that BUT the EX1 with film adapter still beat the pants of them and you also get the best of all worlds.
Mark,

Please take no offense, but your opinions are beginning to sound a bit like Steve's:) . I mean, what's the point in repeating again and again that something is better than a product which - like it or not - is important enough to deserve its own forum on DVinfo?

Don't get me wrong - it's nothing personal. What's more - as have been said, we're in the same boat, you and me! I love my EX1 just as you love yours, but I hate my Letus, and would be very happy if some FS100 supplier took my complete Letus Elite bundle as a trade-in...

Yes, you can get the elusive "35mm look" with Letus (or any other adapter of this kind) - but the hassle is not worth it. And as to the picture quality... Well, with the vibrating GG, forget about the 1000 lines! Not to mention further deterioration of the EX1 sensitivity and S/N.

Actually, after downloading the original file with Philip Bloom's low light comparison (starring his Dad and the cigar :)), I arranged a similar lighting scenario and shot myself lighting up a cigarette, with just a sole 40W home bulb placed to the left back of where I was sitting. I recorded the scene with my EX1/Letus combo, using my Canon FD 85mm F1.8 lens. Results?

Well, very "filmic"; nice shallow DOF. But the picture was so dark and noisy, it was practically unusable.

Yes - I could actually make it usable by rendering with the NeatVideo plugin, but this only adds even more hassle to the workflow. Try and do your own tests, and you will get convinced the FS100 is quite another league (I'm not mentioning the F3 as it's above my financial capabilities at the moment).

All in all, I know very well that everyone is prone to rationalize his investment - but let's get real: with the advent of large sensor camcorders, our 35mm adapters have become obsolete.

But Mark, here is the funniest part: what I have said above would only be valid if I actually could afford keeping my EX1 and buying the FS100 as the B-camera. Since - as I mentioned - I cannot afford that at the moment, I'm going to keep and use the EX1 with Letus for a while, just like yourself!

Only, I don't see a reason to try convince others than this is a "better solution" - no, it is NOT.

Piotr
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Old May 5th, 2011, 10:04 AM   #99
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Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom

Hi Piotr

I'd much rather have a nice large sensor camera in fact I've even got the loan If I do sound negative its only disapointment re the AF101 and the FS100 I so wanted one of them to be my next camera.

I do agree the large sensors are great at seeing in the dark and for that reason may seek to purchase the up coming Canon 5D markIII Or if there is a hack/way to get 25p on the Panny GH2 This may be a low cost solution to at least getting into the large sensor game.

I have to strongly disagree the Letus loses resolution by a large degree, so far all the tests I've done with setting up siemen stars etc have all been very good, although I couldn't tell you the exact resolution I'm confident it's better than 900 lines.

I'm a film maker and want the best quality I can get. 10 bit recording works well for me in post. I need to work quickly from setup to setup as lots to get through I can't afford to stand around and its bad enough without the camera holding us up. The letus once set up STAYS set up and so no messing about with ND filters or misplaced LCD screens. The Panny would work well but its low resolution and 8 bit out. The FS100 is 780 lines possibly 8bit processing and 8bit out with no ND filters and an LCD placed on top where you'd need a stepladder for tripod shots and err another monitor for shoulder mounted and although I would normally use another monitor anyway its not always possible in tight spaces or when in a hurry.

The bottom line is I'm being asked to explain my position My position is clear I want a tool I can use and am a little let down by the fact neither the Panny or the FS100 will be able to replace my awkward workaround. Bear in mind this is from perspective only Yours and others obviously differ and I would be the last person to talk you out of it. Good luck with your purchase I look forward to hearing more and will keep an open mind to any future testing like Phil Blooms up n coming second part.

Mark
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Old May 5th, 2011, 10:24 AM   #100
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Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom

Try doing an Imatest MTF50 run with your Letus. You can download a free fully functioning demo of the software and all the instructions are there on how to do a basic test, including a chart that you can print at home. The best I've ever seen from a Letus type device was approx 600 LW/PH. The problem is that a GG will reduce the contrast and contrast, resolution, perceived and actual sharpness go hand in hand.

When you buy high end lenses one of the key things that you are paying for is high contrast. Real contrast as opposed to in-camera black crushing etc. It is contrast that makes an image look sharp, that's how detail correction works, it increases edge contrast, it does not increase resolution.

I assume you have compared your letus setup side by side with say a DSLR? using the same lenses etc. If you have I'd love to see the evidence that shows the letus to have higher resolution or better sharpness (and contrast, less noise etc). When I compared the Letus extreme with a 5D MkII I didn't need charts or anything else to tell me why so many Letus owners were keen to buy DSLR's.
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Old May 5th, 2011, 01:40 PM   #101
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Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom

Hi Alister

I turn the sharpness/detail off always. How much resolution do you lose through the Letus? I don't know. Just what I see on the siemens chart which looks damn good. Some lenses are better than others and often have there best optimised stop. I can tell you I use the GG for the EX1 and take care in calibrating everything. I don't shoot everything with the letus I also configure for just the camera alone. I have never heard of anyone talking about the letus adapter losing that much resolution until now. I have seen my film on a 40' screen and couldn't see any difference in resolution to 35mm. Monsters was released in many countries and I never heard anyone complain about the film being soft. I'm sure if it was Vertigo would never have released it. That said I dont discount the possibility of a resolution drop of a higher magnitude than I may have thought. If that is the case it makes the Panny AF101 a better proposition as a second camera to the EX1

One of the reasons for an out of focus background is to highlight something in frame If that something is a person then a little bit of softening can be a good thing and with the letus you get a nice film look including a full frame. Of course you get the full rastor and I use multicoated lenses as well as a proper Mattebox. I like to think I get good contrast when I set up shots. HD can make people look older especially with the sharpening/detail and the awful black line around everything Also compression can make people look terribel and a lot worse than they actually are so attention to lighting is important. I have seen many examples of footage from other cameras and even your uncompressed pics from the FS100 and in my opinion I was not impressed with what I saw compared to what I already get.

The tests I do to set up my lenses are I feel adequate. One thing I can tell you with certainty and that is when I don't want an out of focus background which is maybe half the time then the EX1 delivers 1000 lines of resolution and a lot more crucial when doing wide shots. I also use the 10 bit HDSDI out to a Ki Pro.

Areas I'd like to improve is the ability to shoot in lower light and the convenience of just putting on the lens I want onto the front end of the camera Purely because I love the idea of having a camera do this.

My conclusions are the FS100 or the AF101 would actually be a step backwards to my current set up

Mark
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Old May 5th, 2011, 02:12 PM   #102
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Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom

Sorry Mark, we are going to have to agree to disagree. One minute you tell me that nothing compares to 35mm film, then you tell me that you can't see any resolution difference between your letus setup and 35mm film. My Letus experiences have been very different to yours.

Clearly we have different standards and different opinions, but then the world would be a dull place if we all just agreed with everybody and everything. :-)
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Old May 5th, 2011, 02:24 PM   #103
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Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom

One minute you tell me that nothing compares to 35mm film, then you tell me that you can't see any resolution difference between your letus setup and 35mm film

There is a huge difference to the look of film. Resolution is only a part of the equation.
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Old May 5th, 2011, 02:45 PM   #104
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Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom

Agreed, resolution is only part of the equation, but it' is a major part of the equation non the less.
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Old May 5th, 2011, 03:03 PM   #105
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Re: Upcoming hands-on comparison of F3, FS100 and AF100 from Philip Bloom

One advantage that film has is dynamic range and the F3 and FS100 are an improvement over the EX1 in that regard,
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