DV Info Net

DV Info Net (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/)
-   Sony NXCAM NEX-FS100 CineAlta (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-nxcam-nex-fs100-cinealta/)
-   -   Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts? (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-nxcam-nex-fs100-cinealta/496335-starting-scratch-lens-brand-mounts.html)

Steve Kalle July 14th, 2011 01:25 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncan Craig (Post 1667117)
So just to confirm, if I'm buying modern DX lenses for my Nikon DSLR they will work (via an adaptor) on the FS100 without vignetting?

I understand autofocus and iris control are lost, but so long as you don't have edge to edge soften and vignette issues like you get in old style 35mm ground glass adaptors such as my Brevis.

I already have the Nikon 18-200 VR, is it likely this will give similar results to the Sony 18-200 lens sold for this camera?

Thanks!

The amount of softness and vignetting is the same as you see on a DX Nikon camera because the sensor sizes are very similar. However, if you use FX full frame lenses on the FS100, then you are using the sweet spot of the lens and edge issues will be far less prevalent. This is why I want to use Sony Alpha lenses because most of their lenses are full frame, not to mention that their Sony Zeiss lenses are amazing.

The Nikon 18-200 is better than the Sony 18-200 so if you already have that Nikon lens, then stick with it. However, this Nikon lens has really bad distortion on the wide end and gets very soft past 135mm, not something I would ever use for video.

Watch out for the new Sony 16-50 lens which should be either a constant f2.8 or f4.0 and very cheap. It will be announced with the release of a few new Sony cameras, the A65, A77 and a 'Pro' NEX camera in early August. Sony will announce another lens or two and stock should be available in October. Another good and low cost lens is the Sony Zeiss 16-80 3.5-4.5 which gives you 24-120mm on the FS100 for $700. Also, they have a Sony G 24-70 2.8 for half the cost of their Zeiss 24-70 but I have not seen any tests of it yet.

Dave Morrison July 14th, 2011 03:51 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
A "Pro NEX camera"?

Jon Braeley July 14th, 2011 04:17 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
The Sigma 17-50mm F2.8 with A-mount is pretty good for the price and works well with exposure Iris control.

I may get another Sigma based on this lens alone - good bang for the buck.

John Godwin July 16th, 2011 09:38 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Has anyone tried this lens|

Tamron Zoom Super Wide Angle 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di-II LD Aspherical (IF) Macro Lens for Sony Alpha & Minolta Digital SLR

I assume you need the Alpha adaptor. It's a $300 lens and sounds pretty decent. I assume its varifocal and not parafocal... (Is the kit lens varifocal?)

In hindsight I wish I had bought the kit lens. I've now done a couple of shoots with my FS100 and first used the two Canon mount lenses I own. I was happy with the camera, but the lenses looked no better than the kit lens, and with no iris control it was a bit of a pain to work with them, even with a Genus variable ND. Nobody had the kit lens available locally, so I bought a NEX 5 that was available locally and got the Sony 18-55 and the 16mm as a package deal, and used those on the next shoot. Looked every bit as good as the Canons and I had full iris and focus control. Much better for what was essentially run and gun work.

But, I needed more reach, and will on other upcoming shoots. So the kit lens or equivalent begins to look much more attractive. The Tamron above may work if the Alpha adaptor provides iris control, and is cheaper than the Sony 18-200. I'd appreciate comments.

Jamie Roberts July 16th, 2011 09:52 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Braeley (Post 1667225)
The Sigma 17-50mm F2.8 with A-mount is pretty good for the price and works well with exposure Iris control.

Hi Jon

I read on a site that this lens was meant for smaller aperture cameras. Are you using it on the FS100? Is there any vignetting or other issues?

Thanks

Jamie

Bruce S. Yarock July 17th, 2011 11:23 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Not to be redundant, but I'm real happy with the kit lens (18-200). It looks good, the autofocus is very usable when needed, and because of the low light capability of the camera, I can get away with it wrere I would have normally needed a gaster lens.
It makes the camera capable of run and gun and event work, which is a lot of what I do.
Right now I'm trying to figure out what shoulder ig I'll go with.

I'll post pics on another thread.
Bruce Yarock

Dan Asseff July 17th, 2011 03:52 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
John,

I have that Tamron lens but in a Nikon mount and It is ok. I have come to the conclusion that I need one Sony lens and to cover the focal length I need for run and gun work. I have my Nikon lens for any other work that doesn't need auto focus. For any A mount lens for auto focus to work there has to be SAM or SSM autofocus but most A mount lens will have auto iris.

Dan

John Godwin July 17th, 2011 08:58 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Dan,

Thanks for the info. I'll check those other lenses out.

Edward Mendoza July 20th, 2011 10:51 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
With the FS100's sensor being relatively the same size as an APS-C sensor, would you have the crop factor issue using full-frame lenses (like the EF's)? Was this meant to be used with APS-C lenses?

Shawn Sutherland August 25th, 2011 04:30 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Kalle (Post 1667182)
The amount of softness and vignetting is the same as you see on a DX Nikon camera because the sensor sizes are very similar. However, if you use FX full frame lenses on the FS100, then you are using the sweet spot of the lens and edge issues will be far less prevalent. This is why I want to use Sony Alpha lenses because most of their lenses are full frame, not to mention that their Sony Zeiss lenses are amazing.

The Nikon 18-200 is better than the Sony 18-200 so if you already have that Nikon lens, then stick with it. However, this Nikon lens has really bad distortion on the wide end and gets very soft past 135mm, not something I would ever use for video.

Watch out for the new Sony 16-50 lens which should be either a constant f2.8 or f4.0 and very cheap. It will be announced with the release of a few new Sony cameras, the A65, A77 and a 'Pro' NEX camera in early August. Sony will announce another lens or two and stock should be available in October. Another good and low cost lens is the Sony Zeiss 16-80 3.5-4.5 which gives you 24-120mm on the FS100 for $700. Also, they have a Sony G 24-70 2.8 for half the cost of their Zeiss 24-70 but I have not seen any tests of it yet.

I've been told that some manufacturers make wide-angle lenses without barrel distortion. Sounds good to me. Anybody know which manufacturers make "distortion free" wide-angle lenses for the NEX-FS100?

Inquiring minds need to know.

Brian Drysdale August 25th, 2011 04:57 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
You could check out the Canon 14mm

Canon EF 14mm f/2.8 L USM Lens Review

Steve Kalle August 25th, 2011 06:40 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
One of the best distortion-wise is the Nikon 14-24 f2.8 full-frame BUT it greatly suffers from flare and ghosting and costs between $1400-1800 (I think).

What you are looking for is a 'Rectilinear lens'.

Sigma makes a great super wide lens but I can't recall which one.

I believe the best rectilinear lens ever made is the Arri 8mm. I will let you find the price because I don't want to spoil the moment when you see its price.

Update on the new Sony equipment: the 16-50 f2.8 is a great lens for $700 and is sharp wide open and tack sharp stopped down to f4. However, its weaknesses are corner softness and vignetting on the wide end at f2.8.

Duncan Craig August 26th, 2011 02:17 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
The Tokina 11-16mm 2.8.
I've used mine (on a D5100) on a paid job for the first time yesterday. Very wide.

Allan Tabilas August 29th, 2011 12:13 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Kalle (Post 1677694)
One of the best distortion-wise is the Nikon 14-24 f2.8 full-frame BUT it greatly suffers from flare and ghosting and costs between $1400-1800 (I think).

What you are looking for is a 'Rectilinear lens'.

Sigma makes a great super wide lens but I can't recall which one.

I believe the best rectilinear lens ever made is the Arri 8mm. I will let you find the price because I don't want to spoil the moment when you see its price.

Update on the new Sony equipment: the 16-50 f2.8 is a great lens for $700 and is sharp wide open and tack sharp stopped down to f4. However, its weaknesses are corner softness and vignetting on the wide end at f2.8.

Hey Steve did you get a chance to use the 16-50mm f/2.8 lens? If so did you use it with the LA-EA2 alpha a-mount to e-mount adapter? thanks

Monty Wentzel August 29th, 2011 06:07 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
I don't own the camera yet but I am purchasing a Rokinon 85mm prime. This is a manual lens, focus and iris are on the lens. I selected Canon Ef mounts and will use a dumb converter. I shoot with a 7d now and want to see how the Rokinon lens does.

Later I may just order a set of Rokinon lenses with E mounts to use with the FS100 or may just order them all with Canon mounts and continue to use the converter if there are no problems with using it.

Don't really know yet.

Ryan Creason August 29th, 2011 09:46 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
I didn't think Rokinon made lenses in E-Mount - only A-Mount for Sony. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Dominik Krol August 30th, 2011 01:24 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
I dont really get the whole par forcal/non parfocal issue..

I thought that a backfocus adjustment was designed to take care of that?

Shawn Sutherland August 30th, 2011 05:18 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Does anybody own a Sony NEX-FS100 along with the Tokina 11-16 2.8 lens?

Hope so.

If you do, I'll assume that you're using the Sony Alpha LA-EA1 Camera Mount Adapter. (correct me if I'm wrong)

I don't know if you've already tried this, or have time to, but I'd love to see some footage from the FS-100 / Tokina 11-16 2.8 lens combination.

Stills, videos, I don't care. I'll take them all.

I just want to see how that lens works on this camera.

If you have any footage showing 11 through 16, that would be amazing.

I can't thank you enough.

Ryan Creason August 30th, 2011 06:22 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
I'd love to see this as well, Shawn. Good idea! Thanks in advance guys!

Steve Kalle August 30th, 2011 09:32 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn Sutherland (Post 1678747)
Does anybody own a Sony NEX-FS100 along with the Tokina 11-16 2.8 lens?

Hope so.

If you do, I'll assume that you're using the Sony Alpha LA-EA1 Camera Mount Adapter. (correct me if I'm wrong)

I don't know if you've already tried this, or have time to, but I'd love to see some footage from the FS-100 / Tokina 11-16 2.8 lens combination.

Stills, videos, I don't care. I'll take them all.

I just want to see how that lens works on this camera.

If you have any footage showing 11 through 16, that would be amazing.

I can't thank you enough.

From what I have heard, most people are getting the Duclos 11-16 f2.8 and everyone loves it. I think its only significant weakness is CA in addition to being slightly soft wide open at 11mm but very sharp at f4.

Also, I have been told that the Novoflex A-mount adapter is much better than the Sony adapter.

Steve Kalle August 30th, 2011 09:34 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Allan Tabilas (Post 1678406)
Hey Steve did you get a chance to use the 16-50mm f/2.8 lens? If so did you use it with the LA-EA2 alpha a-mount to e-mount adapter? thanks

This lens and adapter have not been released for sale yet (sometime in October) but a few websites have received the lens for testing. Sony Lens: Zooms - Sony 16-50mm f/2.8 DT SSM SAL1650 - SLRgear.com!

One thing to realize is this lens only covers the S35/APS-C sensor whereas other high-end Alpha lenses are FF (Sony G 28-75 2,8; Zeiss 16-35; Zeiss 24-70; Zeiss 85 1.4 & 135 1.8; Sony G 70-200 2.8). Personally, I prefer to use the FF lenses because you use their sweet spot.

However, for cinematography, the only SLR lenses I would rely on are the cine-converted Nikon mount Zeiss and only the newer ZF2 because they lack breathing and are sharper whereas the original ZF lenses suffer from breathing.

Steve Kalle August 30th, 2011 09:48 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominik Krol (Post 1678682)
I dont really get the whole par forcal/non parfocal issue..

I thought that a backfocus adjustment was designed to take care of that?

Please google the terms and do some research. Unless you have a killer AC who can manage zooming AND pulling focus at the same time, then you want a parfocal lens which doesn't change focus while zooming. On a related subject, you also should want lenses which do not "Breathe" - which means changing focal length while focusing. Almost all SLR lenses breathe, even primes, because it is a non-issue for still photography. The only SLR lenses that do not breathe that I know of are the ZF2 Zeiss.

Dominik Krol August 31st, 2011 04:22 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Please dont answer if you just want to mock me and say "google it"

Googling non parfocal, tells you that: it doesn't keep it's focus throughout the zoom.

I knew that information already.
Furthermore every lens is by that definition NON parfocal until the backfocus is adjusted.

So let me ask again in a more comprehensive way: Why wont "non parfocal" lenses become parfocal after a backfocus adjustment?

Steve Kalle August 31st, 2011 08:50 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Hi Dominick,

Sorry, but I didn't mean to mock you.

Can you explain what you mean about backfocus and parfocal....or should I just google it (taking some of my own medicine :p

Dominik Krol August 31st, 2011 11:26 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
:)

What I asked was apparently more complex than I myself had thought.

I will try to break down my thought process, and then you can tell me where I go wrong.

So..

Most if not all video cameras with interchangeable lens mounts have a backfocus adjustment on the lens mount correct? (exept the Sony Ex3 which has a electronic backfocus on the sensor itself, and the Canon XL series since they only accept one type of lens)

All Cine lenses are supposed to be adjusted for backfocus when attached to the camera correct?

The purpose of backfocus adjustment is to make the zoom go through without loosing focus (parfocal) correct?

If all of above is correct, then why cant ALL lenses in the world be backfocus adjusted and become parfocal?

Duncan Craig August 31st, 2011 11:56 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
You are really not just accepting the simple truths.

It's not a simple case of backfocus.
I believe the optical elements within a parfocal lens need to move differently from one another during zooming to hold focus.

Varifocal lenses are mostly going to be much simpler and cheaper, and design for stills camera where refocussing isn't a problem.

A lens is really complicated, it's not just two bits of glass.

Steve Kalle August 31st, 2011 11:59 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
This is what I think: the back focus adjustment is a stationary adjustment meaning that it doesn't move after it is set. A non-parfocal lens has glass elements that move during zooming which affect the focus plane. So, the back focus adjustment cannot dynamically compensate during the lens zooming.

Mark Kenfield August 31st, 2011 06:27 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
For a cheap and easy way to get started, I'd be looking at Nikon AI-S manual lenses with an adapter (or the Zeiss ZF2s if your budget can stretch to that). Get 77mm step-up rings for every lens and then purchase a high quality 77mm vari-ND.

Having de-clicked aperture rings are nice, but there aren't really many situations where changing the aperture (and the resulting changes to DoF) is favourable over being able to simply raise or drop the exposure with ND. With small sensor cameras, where everything was in focus anyway, it didn't make a big difference, but with a S35mm sensor, ND is definitely the way to go.

With the focus peaking on these cameras (I haven't seen the FS100 yet, but I've played with the F3 and assume they're similar) manual focussing is a LOT easier than it would otherwise be, and having the hard focus stops of a manual Nikkor/Zeiss lens makes it a lot easier to keep consistency in focus pulls over the modern SLR zoom lenses.

Brian Drysdale September 3rd, 2011 05:50 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Aperture adjustments do get made during the filming of some shots, it's here where the de clicked rings would have an advantage.

Cine lenses are collimated by a lens technician so that they're correctly set up. The flange depth of the cine camera can by checked by a camera technician at the rental house or repair shop, it's not something that's done on the set by the crew since they use shims for the adjustment. Some S35 digital cameras do allow for flange depth adjustment, but very often people get these cameras set up in advance and don't touch it on the set unless there appears to be a problem.

Monty Wentzel September 4th, 2011 10:20 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Monty Wentzel (Post 1678484)
I don't own the camera yet but I am purchasing a Rokinon 85mm prime. This is a manual lens, focus and iris are on the lens. I selected Canon Ef mounts and will use a dumb converter. I shoot with a 7d now and want to see how the Rokinon lens does.

Later I may just order a set of Rokinon lenses with E mounts to use with the FS100 or may just order them all with Canon mounts and continue to use the converter if there are no problems with using it.

Don't really know yet.

I received the Rokinon 85mm manual lens and placed it on my Canon 7d. It's a manual lens, but it works fine, the image is very very good. This is a fast lens 1.4. I used a variable ND fader ring on the front of the lens and shot some video at 1.4 and used the fader to get the right exposure. It was the middle of the day and bright sunlite, but with this setup I was still able to get a very shallow dof.

My goal is to get the sony fs100 and use this lens with the ProOptics adapter, which is an sony E to Canon EF mount.

I still don't know if I should just order the Rokinon lens with E mounts and just do away with the adapter.

As so many have said the Rokinon lenses are heavy and the 85mm is rather heavy so placing it on an adapter I'm told will make the camera front heavy.

I would love to see a side by side with a Canon "L" or some Zeiss lenses next to a Rokinon lens.

Let me just say back in the day we used to design auditorium sound systems and it was real easy to over design the system to the point that the sound quality was lost on the average persons ability to hear it. I wonder if lenses aren't crossing this line as well. Just as with sound systems, the specs and electronic measuring equipment documented the sound was great, but only dogs could hear the great frequency we were delivering. Lens specs may read great, but can we really see it?

Shawn Sutherland September 6th, 2011 09:09 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn Sutherland (Post 1678747)
Does anybody own a Sony NEX-FS100 along with the Tokina 11-16 2.8 lens?

Hope so.

If you do, I'll assume that you're using the Sony Alpha LA-EA1 Camera Mount Adapter. (correct me if I'm wrong)

I don't know if you've already tried this, or have time to, but I'd love to see some footage from the FS-100 / Tokina 11-16 2.8 lens combination.

Stills, videos, I don't care. I'll take them all.

I just want to see how that lens works on this camera.

If you have any footage showing 11 through 16, that would be amazing.

I can't thank you enough.

Still waiting for that elusive FS-100 / Tokina 11-16 2.8 lens footage.

Anybody?

John Godwin September 7th, 2011 09:15 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
I have the Tokina 11-16. I'm out of the country so posting with a lens I don't have with me is not possible. But I will say the lens looks great at 2.8 with the FS-100.

Best,
John

Monty Wentzel September 7th, 2011 11:34 PM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Creason (Post 1678518)
I didn't think Rokinon made lenses in E-Mount - only A-Mount for Sony. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

At Rokinon.com | Rokinon Optics it seems they do have an "E" mount lens. I just chose to get Canon Ef mounts so I could use the lens with my Canon 7d and if the lens turned out to be less than expected I thought it would be easier to sell with a canon mount.

So far I love the lens and I love manual iris and focus too. The one item I do miss and I miss it a lot is stablization.

I can't hold an 85mm lens, it had to go on a tripod.

I also purchased a ProOptic adapter to fit the "E" mount on the future FS100. The adapter fit very well to the Canon mount lens but it is hard to release the little latch.

Monty

Ryan Creason September 8th, 2011 09:44 AM

Re: Starting from scratch... Lens brand and mounts?
 
All I see on their website is their A-Mount here: Rokinon.com | Rokinon 35mm F/1.4 Wide Angle Lens for Sony - RK35M-S. Where is the E-Mount at?


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:30 PM.

DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2019 The Digital Video Information Network