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Old October 18th, 2013, 01:25 PM   #31
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

Is there a way to seamlessly stitch the end of a 28 minute shot to the beginning of the next shot with these cameras? Or to automatically have the camera continue recording when it reaches its 28 minute limit?

I'm absolutely floored that they could shrink a 24-200 2.8 down to a palm sized unit. This will be a great all around, general purpose camera.
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Old October 18th, 2013, 01:56 PM   #32
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

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The only thing I wished this camera had is the ability for lens interchangeability with a few superwides and long teles just to silence the critics.
The current focal length covers enough for any general purpose, I only wish though I could add a faster lens on it, like a f1.4 but I agree we shouldn't be complaining about the price, especially considering what it does provide, with that small sensor at f2.8 the image might just look like what my cx730 produces which could look too much like "video" due to the lack of sufficient shallow dof. But it will be interesting to see the first user videos to appear again, the camera might surprise us all or maybe not.
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Old October 18th, 2013, 04:57 PM   #33
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

This is a very interesting camera. My biggest questions with video shooting are:

1.) Will it allow complete manual and INDEPENDENT control of "gain/ISO" and "shutter speed" in video mode?
2.) How will this camera's "pixel binning" affect moire and high ISO noise?
3.) Will it have true audio level control or just variable automatic gain control?
4.) How about 29.97p?

On question #1, On cheaper Sony cameras, they are notorious for not giving you full manual control of shutter and gain/ISO together. They always give you one but for auto for the other.

CT
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Old October 18th, 2013, 05:17 PM   #34
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

Arthur -

I'm probably the one saying "a bit pricey", but as I've further contemplated, if you come at it from the side of a VIDEO camera, it's a bloody BARGAIN, it's just "expensive" if you compare to say the $750 RX100M2, or the many "point and shoot" sub $500 cameras, or even say the many sub $1K SLR options... a lot of still shooters still aren't ready to consider the video "feature" to be worth anything <wink>.

In reality, this pup may represent where image acquisition has been heading for some time - one camera, capable of BOTH high quality stills and video - something I've always "wanted" myself - less "gear" to lug, easier logistics while shooting, but the "secondary" function has always come up short... until recently. The RX10 at least potentially looks "pro" enough and covers both disciplines well enough to represent a breakout camera concept.

Once you consider the RX10 as a "video camera", it starts to look pretty "cheap". It also softens the blow with the RX100M2... again, no need to carry a video camera with such a pocketable "P&S"... Not sure what this all means to Sony's "video camera" division - when a Cybershot eclipses the Handycam line... They better have some serious "consumer" cameras in development!


Warren -

It's pretty much "pick a good spot, double punch the record button" proposition. There will be a resulting "gap" of a few seconds, no way to avoid it. I've shot a few events with this approach - you have to keep your eye on the time so as to do the double punch at a lull in the action, but it's easy enough to align the clips if you're multicam. It MAY be possible to hack the firmware to "auto" continue recording, but there aren't as many people out there "hacking" Sony cameras and it seems to be a it of a slog, so it's better to consider the "factory" features to be what they are...


Noa -

The sensor on the RX is a significant jump in size from the CX/PJ cams... 1" vs. 1/3" "roughly", or more than 4 times the size... apples and oranges really, considering from the "video" side, a 1/2" or 2/3" sensor is considered "big" and "professional level" (see again my comment on price above...). F2.8 constant should be a joy to work with - I tried the FZ200, and that was one thing that was NICE (many good features, I just didn't like the look of Panasonic colors/skin rendering). Put that 2.8 on the RX sensor, it SHOULD be "magic".

I'm sure there are front threads on the lens, probably easy enough to add a lens adapter like we've always done on our video cameras when we needed "just a little more" (though might not be a good idea to hang a heavy adapter on a lens with long extension...).

The "out of the box" lens range will probably cover MOST of the needed range - an 18-200 is what I typically have on my SLT's. And don't forget that the camera has the "clear zoom" (AKA digital doubling), so if you can accept a little bit of degradation in the image, you're really talking about a 400mm... and a likely still usable image... it does have other "digital multiplier" options I saw on the spec list (yes, heresy, but in a pinch...). Considering that the processor is reading the entire sensor, it's quite possible that the "digital doubling" won't even degrade that much. I had to get well into the "D" zoom range while testing the RX100M2 before things really fell apart, "C" (clear zoom) was acceptable, if not "perfect", and this was in so-so lighting conditions. The RX10 will have the advantage of the large glass, the f2.8, and whatever new tricks Sony stuffed into the Bionz X processor, so unless they really screw up, I think it's a winning combination.
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Old October 18th, 2013, 05:34 PM   #35
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

Cliff -

I would presume that the same as the RX100/100M2 you have FULL manual control, everything is accessible, and mostly adjustable while recording. Not crippled at all, in fact it takes a while to figure out how to get to everything (small camera and all), but it's "hyper" adjustable... auto works fine while you sort it out...

Again, from the RX100M2, it's fairly well controlled with noise up to at least 800 ISO, usable above that if needed, it breaks up relatively nicely past that, and haven't seen any issues with moire, but haven't set out to try to push the limits on it either....

May have to wait for the manuals on the RX10 to find out how much audio control we get.... it's very limited on the 100... I'd expect more on the RX10, since you get Headphone and mic jacks and can add an audio block.

30p is not listed in any of the specs, and don't recall seeing it on any compact Sony I've run across - I'd expect to use 60p and render it out to 30p if needed.
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Old October 18th, 2013, 05:35 PM   #36
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

A Dutch store allready has it listed for preorder with sales starting from November, it costs 1200 euro, same price as the Sony HDR-PJ780.
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Old October 19th, 2013, 10:54 AM   #37
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

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Originally Posted by Nigel Barker View Post
The RX10 may be limited in some ways but I I only wish that I had a F/2.8 24-200mm FF equivalent lens fitted to my G6. To get the same range on the G6 I would need two lenses & an extra $2000+. On the other hand the G6 with 14-42mm kit lens is half the price of the RX10 but the RX10 does have ND filters

The sensor is smaller than MFT so the DoF won't be as shallow but provided that the low light performance is good then this could have been a nice alternative to the G6 that I purchased to use as a locked off wide camera albeit the G6 with kit lens only cost half the price of the RX10.
And (if you're NTSC) your G6 doesn't stop after 29 minutes.

Fran
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Old October 19th, 2013, 11:43 AM   #38
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

"And (if you're NTSC) your G6 doesn't stop after 29 minutes. "

Where did you get/hear that from ?
Everyone I asked said there is a limitation, unless it is is the specs somewhere.
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Old October 19th, 2013, 12:44 PM   #39
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

Just found it on the blogs. You're right.
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Old October 19th, 2013, 04:18 PM   #40
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

I noticed on the FZ200 that it didn't have a time limitation (also notable on the HS/slo-mo 120 fps mode!) - If I had to guess, it appears that Panasonics "legal department" reviewed the differences between EU laws and US laws and decided to no longer "cripple" the video function in that quirky and arbitrary way for cameras destined for NTSC countries (basically the US and Canada).

I would think Sony could (should!?) follow them on that "feature" easily enough, but in practice the 29 minute clip limit hasn't proven to be a big problem. An annoyance, perhaps, but you just have to be aware of it and do the double punch thing when needed... IF Sony were to remove the limit, I do believe the Handy Cam line would become a vestigial tail entirely...

Reviewing footage shot with the HX300 and RX100M2, I don't see anywhere where a CX/PJ would have offered significant improvement, save perhaps a more stable image due to the magic eyeball... and the CX/PJ stills would never match the quality from the HX and RX. Between the squeeze from cell phones and now still cameras that are very capable of shooting good video, we may be witnesses to the "end" for dedicated video cameras?
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Old October 19th, 2013, 05:09 PM   #41
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

If one really needs to use those fast primes for the out of focus look, then Sony also has the A7 that allows interchangeable lenses with full frame. A lot of nice pics of it can be seen here:
Sony Alpha 7 and 7R hands-on

I know I will be getting one as soon as a couple of jobs are done with the RX10. I have a few really great primes from my film era that I am just itching to try on that A7 namely my Summilux M 50 F1.4 and a Nikkor 135 F2.
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Old October 20th, 2013, 03:47 AM   #42
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

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Originally Posted by Fran Guidry View Post
And (if you're NTSC) your G6 doesn't stop after 29 minutes.

Fran
If you purchase your PAL G6 from the right place (like I did) it doesn't have the 29'59" limit either.
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Old October 20th, 2013, 08:38 AM   #43
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

With the high quality HDMI, recording to an external recorder would be good for long form recording as long as the camera did not shut off automatically !! Remote control from a smart phone or tablet and a remote recorder with a long HDMI cable would make it really attractive for semi unattended shooting.

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Old October 20th, 2013, 03:37 PM   #44
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

There are several samples starting to appear, unfortunately from users that don't know what a tripod is or how to expose right (all sample videos are overexposed), but below one shows best how sharp the image is and I also don't see any signs of moire.

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Old October 20th, 2013, 04:07 PM   #45
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Re: Sony RX10 HD camera

I think this camera will be the perfect point and shoot hanydcam that I have been looking for.
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