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Old November 10th, 2013, 07:28 PM   #31
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

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All the Sony's I have ever owned over expose in auto.
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My experience too. When shooting with the HX20v and the HX200v I invariably reduce exposure about 1 stop using the exposure compensation device.
Gordon Laing has posted an mts file
that he shot with the camera set to 60p while balancing it on a window sill. The sky looks somewhat blown out however when I dropped the file into Vegas Pro 12 and played around there is detail there so I found that encouraging. Perhaps the new Bionz processor really is a significant improvement and the traditional short-comings of these cameras no longer apply as well as delivering better dynamic range. Whatever, we shall see. The good news is that there is an exposure compensation wheel right there under one’s thumb.
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Old November 11th, 2013, 06:42 AM   #32
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

That's the video I downloaded, here is a screenshot of the Edius waveform meter where I see the sky is clipped sharply at 109 IRE.

Ron, not only AVCHD format records super whites, MPEGII format was just the same on my old Sony V1E and also with my current cam the EX1R. It's the camera that decides what to do with overdone highlights, compress them or not. If the camera has an adjustable knee setting in it's gamma curve then it can roll off the exposure at the top end of the scale. I was hoping the RX10 might have something similar, I will of course keep an open mind but there is so much unknown about the inner workings right now.

For instance how does the internal ND work? Because it's internal I read suggestions it may simply be an electronic attenuator following the sensor, how about that, oh and it was proved to be effective, wow...

Just one thing, has anyone noticed in the full quality download video the power lines appear to be broken into little pieces? Similar to watching fields instead of frames. You need to see the fully zoomed up part, I saw it on Edius computer screen and put it down to scaling artifacts but it's still there out onto my Panasonic HDTV. Perhaps US power cables are not smooth? Not sure about this, is it just me seeing it? If not, maybe it's because instead of line dropping from the sensor this cam re-samples the whole lot and it's "interpolation" effects?
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Old November 11th, 2013, 07:04 AM   #33
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

Yes Claire I know that other cameras and formats expose super white but was just referring to RX10 and AVCHD. Applying AE shift to my cameras that do not have independent knee controls seems to solve this problem and even my NX5U used this way is better.

I am downloading the original to see if I can see the power line issue you noticed.

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Old November 11th, 2013, 07:56 AM   #34
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

I can see the power line issue too in Edius and Vegas 12. Not really visible when played but definitely there when stopped on a frame.

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Old November 11th, 2013, 03:47 PM   #35
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

Thanks for checking this Ron, I see it in motion (60P) on a 32" screen as a vertical dither or "trembling" just on these cables , not to be confused with the camera shake. BTW the WD Live TV Hub will also display 60P if you have one.

I do suspect this is likely to be an effect from the downscaling in the camera. It must be a fast processor indeed to manage this in real time at 60P and remain very good quality, Maybe better this than simply skipping lines from the sensor.
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Old November 11th, 2013, 11:42 PM   #36
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

As Ron mentions, Sonys overexpose in many situations, easily rectified by EV - adjustment. Doesn't worry me for one second, my thumb is already "muscle trained" from shooting HX series cams! VERY easy to adjust the cameras "intelligent" auto to reflect a bias towards a "better" exposure when needed - I think they try to retain shadow detail vs. highlight detail, where I would lean the other direction in "most" cases...


I'd observe that that sample looks like many a "hazy" day - not sure where it was shot, but many cities have smog/haze that looks just like that in real life - it's not "blown out", it's just this "stuff" hanging in the air! The joys of living in a city, where you get to chew your air!

There is significant "handheld" camera bounce at full zoom, and when I paused, most of the time the wires looked pretty good as "stills" - when "rolling", I saw what could have been camera 'bounce", OR quite possibly atmospheric distortion - at that distance if there was any heat coming off of nearby concrete/asphalt surfaces, the wires could well have appeared "wavy" and distorted - I had this recently while shooting aircraft taking off - at the far end of the runway, there was HUGE distortion from ground heat waves "shimmering", when zoomed!

I would be more focused on the apparently fine detail on the nearby buildings than by a distant object at high zoom... Half the fun of having high zoom is being able to shoot at great distances, but as a practical matter, you have to expect stabilization to be pushed to, or past, it's limits, and that there is a strong possibility of atmospheric distortion between you and the "target". Heat, moisture, dust, haze, smog... all can drastically reduce effective "visibility", even if you have optics capable of resolving at long distances and a stable platform!

I've done some "moon" shots with an HX300 - you need a stable tripod or monopod, and a CLEAR night to get best results - again, a little wind (dust) or light clouds, you lose a lot of detail.


So far, I've been unimpressed with the skill of the handlers of this new "toy", but very impressed with what I'm seeing that IS there. I know that MOST of the reviews are coming from the STILL side of the equation, where this is a "good" camera, but not necessarily overly impressive when compared to APS-C or FF per se, and at first glance is "overpriced"... but when you come at it from the VIDEO side, with a relatively HUGE sensor, dedicated video features, and a darn fast lens, it starts to actually look pretty reasonable...

Much of the reviewer "interpretation" of this new toy much be taken with that "bias" in mind - as with all "reviews" and "test footage", there are SO many places to fly off the track, where in real life this may perform rather unexpectedly well once video-centric people get their mitts on it!

I am fascinated by the design/concept, as it does very much cross the two disciplines in ways not ever before seen - Sony has been moving this way for a while, and it's starting to be VERY usable, not just a marketing "feature".
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Old November 12th, 2013, 08:34 AM   #37
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

Just wonder when we will see this sensor in a real camcorder ? Or if there will be a camcorder version of the RX10. Maybe a fixed lens version of the EA50 with 4K !!!! Video is clearly an objective of the camera with the clean HDMI being stated as a means of external recording to overcome the time limit. If it had the spot focus etc menu items of my CX700 it would be a good replacement for an unattended camera in my theatre shoots with a Ninja 2 or Odyssey. WiFi remote would be good too

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Old November 12th, 2013, 12:14 PM   #38
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

I guess I've been shooting video with "still" cameras long enough now that I think of them as "real camcorders" <wink>. I'm finding that the HX300 and RX100M2 are working quite well as a pair for both stills and video - each has its strengths and weaknesses - the RX10 seems to bring the two together in a good way.

Aside from the 29 minute clip limit and some of the Handycam features like touch focus/exposure, nightshot, and the form factor, you are shooting "real video". There is not a lot to complain about in terms of video quality in the current generation of "still" cams, and I am actually quite comfortable with the ergonomics. I don't feel like I am "missing" something when I leave the video camera(s) sitting home... the RX100 OTOH, is right up there with the smart phone - just seems like you should have it with you!

Sure, I'd like to see a full rotating LCD that can flip to protect the screen when off, touch functionality is of course "nice", and dump the clip limit... but each of those things I'd classify as "minor annoyances" compared to what IS already there. I do hope they will figure out a path to 4K output as well, I am surprised it isn't "there" with this generation release...


I'm.not sure Sony can make a "magic eyeball" imaging block version of the RX10, but it would be "interesting"... Sony VIDEO division certainly needs to up its game to keep up with some very aggressive and innovative initiatives coming from the STILL camera side. They risk becoming irrelevant in a company that is looking for cuts to improve the financials... I could see the consumer Cybershot and Handycam lines being phased out due to cell phone prevalence in the market.... They MUST innovate, should be interesting to see what comes from that!
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Old November 19th, 2013, 02:28 AM   #39
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

I found this on YouTube, shot on the Sony RX10.

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Old November 19th, 2013, 02:39 AM   #40
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

The image stabilization seems to be very efficient, even at full zoom but I noticed the image gets softer then so not sure if some digital zoom was at play. Sound also seems to be good, I only can't get rid of the feeling that the images looking very "video-like" to me which might make it harder to match with a regular dslr. Still waiting to see some shots in the hands of a experienced person.
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Old November 19th, 2013, 05:32 AM   #41
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

I expect to have one of these to test in the next couple of days,: what would you like to see in terms of a test?
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Old November 19th, 2013, 08:28 AM   #42
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

DR, DR at different ISOs, Spread of DR above and below neutral gray.
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Old November 19th, 2013, 11:33 AM   #43
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

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what would you like to see in terms of a test?
That would be great, I think what especially weddingshooters would like to know is how much shallow dof you can achieve, don't know if you can compare to a dslr, like a 7d? And how well it can handle high (3200) iso and again it would be great to see how it would compare to a regular dslr. I"m asking much but you never know what is possible. :)
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Old November 19th, 2013, 02:29 PM   #44
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

And here is one more RX10 I found on YouTube. I reckon that this little camera is a winner for a point and shoot. Cant wait to get one.

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Old November 19th, 2013, 02:36 PM   #45
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

Where I think this camera might sit well is with journalists and basic News gathering due to its size and complete package. The Image looks good enough for low end broadcasting and a perfect Broll camera for behind the scenes etc...
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