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Sony TRV950 / PDX10 Companion
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Old December 24th, 2003, 06:40 PM   #1
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Shotgun mic for Pdx10

Anybody has any suggestion on a good shotgun mic for Pdx 10.
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Old December 26th, 2003, 03:15 PM   #2
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A chunk from my recent test Gregg.

The tiny built in microphones are remarkable, giving good stereo when used up close. They are predominantly bass light and there’s no further bass cut for windy conditions. They pick up rather more tape deck noise than the mics fitted to the PD100 and more noise than the supplied mono electret condenser ECM-NV1. Interestingly the microphone audio characteristics are remarkably similar and footage can be intercut even when some scenes have been shot with the inbuilts and some with the NV1.

The XLR box does have ‘low cut’ switches, but this makes the mic sound unacceptably thin. As a comparison test I compared the NV1 with a Sennheiser K6/ME66 combination and the differences were startling. The smoothness of the Sennheiser and the bass extension are dramatic reasons to upgrade the PDX10, and the latter’s quiet audio circuitry is very capable of handling the better signal. The in-built mics hear the manual focus ring being turned, and why Sony fits a clicking ‘push auto’ focus switch and a silent ‘fade’ switch right up close to the microphones’ grille is something I can’t fathom.

tom.
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Old December 27th, 2003, 10:15 AM   #3
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Tom
Thanks alot ,your info was extremely helpful. I guess I will upgrade the mic to the ME66 or AT897.
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Old January 4th, 2004, 04:17 AM   #4
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This short lived thread seemed worth resurrecting. What other shotguns are being used out there, with the PDX10, and for what, exactly? I read a great handful of related articles by Alan Barker regarding the PD150 earlier today, and he highly recommends the ME64 for dialog. Applications will vary, but I'm thinking also length as a factor, with our beloved, petite PD ?

Speech!

Shawn
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Old January 4th, 2004, 06:28 PM   #5
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Yes, I agree. Over time, I have read all the different posts regarding mics, and wish that there was a happy medium (cost-wise) between the ones that people mention frequently (like the Sennheiser ME66) and the stock mic.
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Old January 9th, 2004, 12:56 AM   #6
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As you can see under "Now Hear This"
I am very impressed with the lightweight (90gr) Behringer B-5:
http://www.behringer.com/02_products...d=B-5&lang=eng.
It satisfys the specs of the cardiode ME64 wich is praised by Alan Barker above the shotgun ME66 in
http://www.alanbarker.com/
and the B-5 costs only 119 euro.
I was pointed on this mic by a store for musical instruments that sell also a lot of hihi as Rode, Sennheiser etc.. They were very enthusiastic with this mic. It is new from Behringer.

It can be used on-cam as well as a boommic.
It has a low-cut filter on 150hz with 6db/octave wich is very wise for vocal recording. Remember that basses can distort your input signal and Sony has only 16bit recording at 48kb.
Real studiorecording is done at 32 bit. The new DVD stdrd is 24bit
at 192 khz! Amazing.

But our sony PDX10 is relatively better as you might think.
I measured a noise level under -85/90 db, while my Soundcard SBlive has a noiselevel of -65 db on its linelevel.

With much basses the highfrequency seem to tend to disappear in the noise because their amplitude is lower.
I don't think it is whise to use a flat studiomic on the cam without the possibility of bass roll of.

Another favourite is the Sennheiser 421-II that has the most optimal specs for us. Look at its polar pattern and see that with bass rollof it behaves like a supercardiode.
But it is bigger and more heavy (but not to heavy: 385gr) and is sold for 330 euro. But for our purposes it has the best specifications. This mic is famous for its sound!

You will find some sound samples of different mics at
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...202#post130202

Myself I doubt between the Behringer and the Sennheiser.
The sound of the Sennheiser is musical and very friendly for speech. It is most suit for us. The bas roll-of makes it perfect for every situation.
Maybe at the end I want them both.

NB:
the Sensitivity of the
Sennheiser Md421 is 2 mV/Pa +- 3 dB
Sennheiser ME 64 is 31 mV/Pa +- 2,5 dB (advised attenutor of -16db, Alan Barker)
Behringer B-5 is 12,6 mV/Pa (need an attenuator ??)

Indications of sensitivity at:
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~hgs/rtp/microphone.html
ref: Sony EVM670 sensitivity is -42dbm

I don't know what our PDC10(p) demands. Does anybody know that?
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Old January 9th, 2004, 02:10 AM   #7
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There's a lot more info over at the Audio forum. Mics aren't camera specfic. The ideal mic depends on what you will be doing with it and what your budget is.

There have been a lot of article and opinions written, but at the end of the day the only opinion that counts is yours. Try the mics out in various cercumstances.

Before you even go shopping read up on mics and learn about the various pattern s and what they are usefull for.

http://www.equipmentemporium.com/

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/location_sound.html#link%20two

Short , really fine shotguns are AT4073, Sanken CS1.

A few of us are trying to get away from shotguns and there are a few threads dealing with that.
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Old January 9th, 2004, 02:21 AM   #8
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I don't know, Jan. I want to know. I'm brand new to the world of microphones. Thank you both for dropping some knowledge here.
I'll post soon to come questions over yonder. BTW, SOME mic.s have to be cam specific (or is it the other way around?), simply because this is a world of short cams (such as the PDX10) and long microphones (such as the ME67).
Right? Anyway, that's what they taught me back in Sunday school. :-)
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Old January 9th, 2004, 04:45 AM   #9
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thanks for all your info guys. I will take
Bryans advice and do a little more nosing around Polar Patterns

Thanks
Gregg
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Old January 9th, 2004, 09:22 AM   #10
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I use a Audio Technica AT33a condensor mic and mount this on the Shoe in place of the Standard NV1.

see

http://www.audio-technica.com/prodpro/profiles/ATM33a.html


I thing they cost circa $120.

They come with their own little baffle that is necessary for outdoor shooting (wind noise)

I also use this mic in the studio (recording Acousic guitars and backing vocals) and have 4 of them.

This is a huge improvement on NV1 and is also a good general all purpose mic that can be used in a whole number of situations.

I have recorded complete orchestras using 4 of them (running into a quality compact Mackie 1202 VLX pro mixing desk and then straight to the PDX 10)

I can loas some sounds to the net if anyone is interested.

Regards P
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Old January 9th, 2004, 09:59 AM   #11
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Yes please load those samples to the Internet.
The specs look very OK!
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Old January 9th, 2004, 09:27 PM   #12
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Shawn ,
I wasn't trying to be a smart ass. I have a fair number of mics and I continue to read anything I can. It gives me a better understanding. I really wish it was that simple. My best advice for a long mic on the PDX10 is mounted on a mini rover.

If you take my advice and read the threads i spoke about, a few of us are leaning to hypercardois rather than shotguns, for some of our audio.

I have a set of Oktavas now and have ordered a set of THE hypercardoid 1/2" condenser mics. You want small, they're under 5". Any mic like this requires phantom and decent preamplification.

Sanken have a short shotgun at only 7", it's also around $800.
http://www.sanken-mic.com/english/condenser/pdf/cs-1.pdf

AT have enetered the fray with the new AT897 At 11" it's still a fairly big mic, but it's very reasonably priced below $300
http://www.audio-technica.com/prodpro/profiles/AT897.html

There is always the AT4051a/4053a cardoid or hypercartdoid. They have interchangeable capsules an are considered an above average microphone for location use. they're 6" and again require phantom. They are under $400. The little brother the AT 3031 isn't a bad mic at $170 either.
http://www.audio-technica.com/guide/type/index.html#smallCondenser

Best to try them or wait until Matt G, Myself , Dave Largent or others, record some more examples. We haven't tried any of the non shotguns outside yet.
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Old January 9th, 2004, 10:25 PM   #13
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I can dig it, Bryan, and have been following as well as I'm able the aforementioned audio threads. My mics will be shockmounted, on two PDX10s, for the time being, so they'll have to be short enough, hence my wanting to rejuvenate this thread to find out what people are using with their X10s. Maybe it's all in the shockmount....Lightwave...
Sounds like it's time to move this thought over to Audio...

Shawn
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Old January 10th, 2004, 05:58 AM   #14
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Shawn , I use a flash holder that has a removable head to mount my SGM-1X with as it keeps it high and to the right(or left) plus keeps it directly off the cam while still being mounted to the camcorder via the tripod. They make a variety of these for 35mm cameras and are not hard to get ahold of. The unit screws to the bottom of the camcorder and than you attach it to the tripod. It is L shaped and has a handle that the light(or mic) mounts on.Works great.
KennJ
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Old January 10th, 2004, 02:23 PM   #15
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Great idea, Kenn, will investigate.
Shawn
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