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Old March 9th, 2005, 01:57 AM   #1
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Outputting footage from PDX-10

Hi,

I have just registered as an active member as I have a specific question regarding the PDX-10.

I have recently returned from India where I shot 9 hours of footage which I intend to use for a documentary for television.

To save me time I thought I would digitise my footage at the same time as outputting a copy to VHS which has the timecode burnt into it... then I could log all the rushes and do a paper edit from the VHS tapes.

It is possible to output a display of data code and timecode by switching over in the menu system, which affects the output to VHS but does not affect the firewire data which is going into Final Cut Pro

I have done a test and everything is wonderful... except the VHS version crops the sides off my originally 16:9 footage and gives me a fullscreen 4:3 version.

Q: How do I get my 16:9 footage to output as 16:9 onto my VHS tape via the audio/video cable (3-pin stereo jack to 3xRCA)?

Justine
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Old March 9th, 2005, 08:10 AM   #2
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Re: Outputting footage from PDX-10

<<<-- Originally posted by Justine Smith : It is possible to output a display of data code and timecode by switching over in the menu system -->>>

Good question - I haven't tried, but I think you can turn on data code from the touch screen and it wouldn't affect the firewire output. Have you tried?

<<<-- I have done a test and everything is wonderful... except the VHS version crops the sides off my originally 16:9 footage -->>>

Actually I think it would be squeezed (720x480 anamorphic), not cropped.

<<<-- How do I get my 16:9 footage to output as 16:9 onto my VHS tape via the audio/video cable (3-pin stereo jack to 3xRCA)? -->>>

Here you've hit on a problem which has no easy solution. There are some boxes which will do this but they're pretty expensive. The FX1 and Z1 have a letterbox mode which will evidently do this, but not the PDX-10. If you shot anamorphic 16:9 then it's gonna be a bit of a pain to go to VHS, and I don't think you'll do it the way you describe. As I see it there are two options:

1. Burn to an anamorphic 16:9 DVD. Then let the DVD player provide the letterbox and hook it up to your VCR via the composite and audio RCA cables.

2. Capture in the computer and create a separate 4:3 sequence for letterboxed video. In FCP just create a new 4:3 sequence, then drop your 16:9 clips or sequences into it. It will be letterboxed. While you're at it you could use the timecode burn effect also and avoid any issue with the camera's data code. It is also configurable as to screen location, font size, etc so it's less intrusive than the camera's built-in data code. Of course this will require rendering though...

Welcome to DVinfo, and let us know how it works out!
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Old March 9th, 2005, 09:46 AM   #3
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Re: Outputting footage from PDX-10

<<<-- Originally posted by Justine Smith : Hi,

>It is possible to output a display of data code
>and timecode by switching over in the menu system,
>which affects the output to VHS but does not affect
>the firewire data which is going into Final Cut Pro

as far as i know the only data you can display
is the date via firewire. however, if you record onto VHS via
analog output the data and timecode will be there.
it basically records what's on the camera screen.

>I have done a test and everything is wonderful...
>except the VHS version crops the sides off my originally
>16:9 footage and gives me a fullscreen 4:3 version.

that's all you get with VHS.
hmmmm, it's all you want to do with your VHS copy
is paper edit what do you care about 16:9?
anyway,you're seeing a representation of 16:9
onto your VHS 4:3 (it displays a cropped 16:9).

>Q: How do I get my 16:9 footage to output as 16:9
>onto my VHS tape via the audio/video cable (3-pin stereo jack to 3xRCA)?

you can't. PDX10 footage (16:9 mode) IS 4:3 anamorphic
(squeezed). and even if you could, VHS format records
using 4:3, it doesn't support 16:9 full resolution.

voila that's my version.
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Old March 9th, 2005, 12:54 PM   #4
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Re: Re: Outputting footage from PDX-10

<<<-- Originally posted by Boyd Ostroff :
1. Burn to an anamorphic 16:9 DVD. Then let the DVD player provide the letterbox and hook it up to your VCR via the composite and audio RCA cables.
-->>>


You anticipated a question I was going to have, as I shot everything at 16:9 and don't want to pick my shots on my PC.

Going to 16:9 DVD is certainly the easiest solution, both quality wise and to better look for scenes. Also to take around.

About the stereo audio question when recording so in the PDX10, what are the options besides ScenalyzerLive for a PC transfer?

The program seems to flash the program name every now and then.

What other options do I have besides the "no-option" going to Mac.


Carlos
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Old March 10th, 2005, 01:47 AM   #5
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<<<-- Originally posted by Justine Smith : It is possible to output a display of data code and timecode by switching over in the menu system -->>>

Boyd: Good question - I haven't tried, but I think you can turn on data code from the touch screen and it wouldn't affect the firewire output. Have you tried?

This part I have tested. You can find data code in the touchscreen menu on page 2. This allows you to choose between displaying the date of recording, or (this is what I like) the camera settings used at the time - shutter speed, exposure, gain db - good for checking what worked in the heat of the moment, and why.

In the ETC menu there is also the option of LCD/VCD output(something like this), which outputs whatever is generally displayed on the cameras LCD, so for me it outputs the timecode.

Both the data code and LCD display can be outputted simultatneously.

I am outputting using only the stereo/video pin to 3xRCA (yellow white and red into my VCR). What would be good about this is that I can capture via firewire to my MAC laptop at the same time and I do not capture any of the display data, which I don't want on my hard drive.... And that could save me 9 hours of re-capturing or dubbing all my footage!

Juan: hmmmm, it's all you want to do with your VHS copy
is paper edit what do you care about 16:9?
anyway,you're seeing a representation of 16:9
onto your VHS 4:3 (it displays a cropped 16:9).

Yes, that's true, and I may end up compromising and doing the paper edit based on the inferior images... but you know sometimes I might overlook a truly magnificent wideshot that is so perfectly composed that I just have to put it in my movie! you know what I mean?

Carlos: You anticipated a question I was going to have, as I shot everything at 16:9 and don't want to pick my shots on my PC.
Going to 16:9 DVD is certainly the easiest solution, both quality wise and to better look for scenes. Also to take around.

This is the better option for visual quality, but I think it will mean I have to capture at another time.

I don't have a DVD burner on the machine I am capturing to... and I expect you would be doing this via computer not with a standard DVD-recorder?

<<<-- I have done a test and everything is wonderful... except the VHS version crops the sides off my originally 16:9 footage -->>>

Boyd: Actually I think it would be squeezed (720x480 anamorphic), not cropped.

Oh, okay I didn't realise it is anamorphic. I didn't need to change any settings on FCP for it to be captured with the whole 16:9 image in the correct ratio? I thought the PDX10 was different as you don't need to put anamorphic lenses onto the camera to record 16:9. Are the electronics within the camera converting to anamorphic?

Thanks for all the feedback, so far. I think I will continue as I was and settle for the inferior video copy to scroll through and pick my favourite footage. That way I can save some time on only capturing/dubbing in one hit, at this stage.
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Old March 10th, 2005, 08:49 AM   #6
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<<<-- Originally posted by Justine Smith : <<<--

This is the better option for visual quality, but I think it will mean I have to capture at another time.

I don't have a DVD burner on the machine I am capturing to... and I expect you would be doing this via computer not with a standard DVD-recorder?
-->>>


Of course I am using a DVD burner on my computer. Standard DVD recorders are not a good option, in my opinion. Too much protection is built-in.

Do get a DVD burner, as they are quite cheap nowadays. DVD-R media also is, even RW is now.

You will need capturing your video anyway, so once it's inside your computer you can go through the necessary paces to put at least 90 minutes in a DVD or even more using DVD-Shrink, with some compression.


Carlos
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Old March 10th, 2005, 08:59 AM   #7
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Re: Re: Re: Outputting footage from PDX-10

<<<-- Originally posted by Carlos E. Martinez : <<<--
...what are the options besides ScenalyzerLive for a PC transfer?
The program seems to flash the program name every now and then.
Carlos -->>>

Carlos--is it possible that you are using a trial version of ScenalyzerLive? It leaves a "watermark" like you describe if you haven't purchased a copy and registered it. After that, it will not flash the program name. Great program.
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Old March 10th, 2005, 09:20 AM   #8
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Outputting footage from PDX-10

<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Long : is it possible that you are using a trial version of ScenalyzerLive? It leaves a "watermark" like you describe if you haven't purchased a copy and registered it. After that, it will not flash the program name. Great program. -->>>


Maybe so. I thought this program was free, as WinDV is and I presently use on all my captures. Really don't see any need to buy it then. What will it improve on WinDV?


Carlos
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Old March 10th, 2005, 10:08 AM   #9
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<<<-- Originally posted by Justine Smith : <<<-- Originally posted by Justine Smith -->>>

>Oh, okay I didn't realise it is anamorphic.
>I didn't need to change any settings on FCP for
>it to be captured with the whole 16:9 image
>in the correct ratio?

When you capture 16:9 footage in FCP, it has a
flag that means 16:9 anamorphic. The key is
to edit on a timeline that is 16:9 anamorphic,
and you'll see the correct representation.
You can set that up on Sequence/Settings.

>I thought the PDX10 was
>different as you don't need to put anamorphic
>lenses onto the camera to record 16:9.
>Are the electronics within the camera
>converting to anamorphic?

The answer is Yes
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Old March 10th, 2005, 02:37 PM   #10
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For Justine,
I have a TV/Monitor that i just love. It is one of the few TV/Monitors with not only component inputs (for a DVD player) but it also is switchable to 16:9 for viewing DVDs etc.

Most DVD players will have a "flag" that tells the television what format to use but in the case of my PDX10 footage shot in 16:9, I just switch over to 16:9 mode on the TV/Monitor. This is I believe either a Toshiba or Samsung and cost me all of $179 as I recall at the local Best Buy.

I am currently looking for a bigger model with 16:9 but they are quite rare unless you go High Def. and that is putting a 26" over the $699 mark locally.

They made a larger version but it looks like they stopped making it.

That was my solution to the problem. Get a monitor to correctly display either format.

Sean McHenry
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Old March 11th, 2005, 08:58 PM   #11
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Re: Re: Outputting footage from PDX-10

<<<-- Originally posted by Juan Parra : and even if you could, VHS format records
using 4:3, it doesn't support 16:9 full resolution. -->>>

Well, yes and no. Anamorphic is anamorphic, regardless of the medium. True, the resolution of VHS is rather low. But if you have your VCR connected to a widescreen TV, then simply switch the TV to "full screen" mode and it will unsqueeze the anamorphic image.

On a 4:3 TV it will look squashed however, unless it has a feature like Sean describes.
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