PD170 vs VX2100 questions at DVinfo.net

Dave Campbell · December 23rd, 2003, 07:53 AM

These are interesting comments. I have had a vx1000, and a vx2000. I am torn if I want a vx2100 or a PD170. This new sound problem clearly makes me wait until they have shipped for a while.

But, this repair cost is another interesting data point.
I had read the prosumer stuff was more expensive that then consumer stuff.

So, if the PD170 would be a flat fee of $550, what is the flat fee for repair on a vx2100?

Am still having a tough time deciding which way I want to go. I know the video quality between the two cameras is the same. So, I am left with audio and form factor. I have carried the vx1000/2000 around and though large, its not been
an issue. My concern is if I were to get the PD170, with all the extra audio hanging off of it, it may become a pain carrying it around.

Any thoughts?

I really haven’t had audio issues with my vx2000 series stuff. I have the adapters and pieces I have used. I can see the xlr has some pluses, but I struggle against all the possible cons.

Thanks for any thoughts.

Dave

Mike Rehmus · December 23rd, 2003, 10:32 AM

Between the operational differences for the two cameras and the difference in support, I'll always purchase the 150/170 version of the products.

I've put up with a VX-1000 and an XLR adapter. Not, in my opinion, the way to go just from the audio viewpoint.

Search for a list of differences that have been published before on this forum. They are significant if you are trying to earn $ with your camera.

Just my opinion.

Dave Largent · December 23rd, 2003, 07:23 PM

What's the difference in support?

Raymond Siew · December 25th, 2003, 12:13 PM

Hi,

I am a products speciallist in an IT firm. I am thinking to make some extra money out of my weekend. I would like to buy a camera and get business started as a part time cameraman. I do not have target customer but plan to take up wedding and event shooting.

I am consider this few models...

Sony DSR-PD170
Sony DCR-VX2100
Panasonic AG-DVX100

which is the correct choice?

Can you guys help me to make up my mind...?

Thanks a lot.

Mike Rehmus · December 25th, 2003, 06:51 PM

800 number support, discusions with the Support folks can extend to including a Sony engineer. The Support person will research questions, become your advocate with the repair center if necessary and adjudicate problems. It helps a lot.

Repairs normally happen within a week instead of 6 weeks which reportedly is the turn-around time for the consumer products.

I'm not certain what Cons you are talking about vis-a-vis XLR, Dave C. The other way, with 1/8" unbalanced inputs is less capable and you end up with more gear hanging off the equipment whenever you try to get good sound. There is no extra gear hanging off a 170 or 150 unless you chose to hang it there.

I believe that for weddings, the 170 is the correct choice (understand that that is my opinion). You just about must use XLR sound gear in weddings which tosses out the 2100 if only because of the the extra gear you have to put up with. The Panny has been said to not be as good as the 150 in low light (I've not shot with one) and therefore would certainly not be as capable as the 170. Low light is almost always an issue with a wedding and reception combo.

Dave Largent · December 25th, 2003, 07:14 PM

Does the PD have a miniplug-in, or just XLRs?

Raymond Siew · December 25th, 2003, 07:49 PM

Dear Mike,

Thanks for your precious opinion. I will fight my way out for 170.

Dave Campbell · December 25th, 2003, 09:39 PM

So, if the flat fee for the PD series is 550, is there a flat
fee for the vx series also? If so, how much?

My only comment no the XLR stuff on the PD series is its just more stuff to carry. Meaning, my main use is carrying it on family vacations like to Disneyland. If I only used on a tripod, I would see as no big deal. So, does anyone carry their PD around compared to an VX and had any issues with the mic, etc as an example?

Thanks

Dave

Mike Rehmus · December 26th, 2003, 12:25 PM

I don't carry my 150 on vacation. It would seem too much like work. I have a pocket-sized PC110 that I use since it also can snap reasonable stills.

Other than a longer microphone, there isn't anything to bad about carrying a 150 or 170 around. I have changed the microphone mount to a CAC-12 which has a ball-joint so I can flip the microphone around and lower it to the camera body when I put it in the case.

Another advantage of the 150 microphone is you can put a wind sock over it and kill the wind noise. You could probably do that to the 2000 with a foam cover from something like a Shure SM58 and then put the fuzzy cover over that. Both are sold by B&H just to mention a source.

The flat fee is similar IIRC.

David Korb · January 13th, 2004, 12:15 AM

To Dave Largent
the pd does have a mini plug for external mic and on page 252 of the owners manual the comments include the following albeit confusing info

connect an external microphone (optional). This jack also accepts a "plug-in-power" microphone. Be sure to use the ECM-S80 for the external microphone.

im guessing the mic mentioned above is some kind of proprietary mic manufactured by Sony

not sure if this helps dave...but its what i see here

Dave Campbell · January 13th, 2004, 07:58 AM

So, just wondering about the pd170 audio. So, from what I have read, it records mono on one track. So, what do folks do in post to be able to have a "stereo" effort with using both tracks?

dave

Mike Rehmus · January 13th, 2004, 01:03 PM

You can direct the audio to both tracks with independent levels if you wish on the 150/170. Many of us do that to prevent a suddenly loud sound event from overdriving both channels.

In Post, one just Pans the sound to the tracks that are desired and away you go.

From what I've heard and observed, most video and movie dialog is mono.

True stereo is only used (along with 5.1, 6.1, 7.1) to locate the source in the sound field when it is clearly not near the center AFAIK. Otherwise it would be distracting. I'm certain that productions that can afford superior sound work do move the audio around in the sound field. Why not? Perhaps Douglas or some other experienced sound producer can talk to that point.

That does not mean that the sound won't be found on both stereo channels or that stereo is not broadcast. Just that the audio is pretty much identical on both channels.

Patrick Grealy · January 16th, 2004, 03:26 AM

I often record music events using my own Mics and a sub mixer (often using more than 4 mics)

If I dont want to record to a separate source (e.g. mini-disk) I will often pan different sources to the 2 ausdio tracks on my PDX10 (same audio as PD150/170) e.g. string section of an orchestra on one and wind/percussion on the other.

It helps to have this separation in post in case some rebalancing needs to be done.

Alternatively, I may decied to record a stereo mix straight to the camera using the 2 inputs.

The point is that having 2 tracks and 2 inputs can give you some more choices. (If 4 were available, I for one would use them!)

Regards P

Lyndon Golanowski · January 22nd, 2004, 08:35 PM

so it is only audio difference ?

Law Tyler · January 22nd, 2004, 11:22 PM

Get the PD-170.

I just now tried to split the VX2100 audio, so that one channel comes from one receiver, the other channel a different receiver. DOES NOT WORK. Don't know why. I guess you have to get a DXA-8 to make it work that way.

One receiver going to both channel, that works fine.

So, spend the extra few hundred and get the PD-170.

My VX2100 is now relagate to #2 cam forever.

December 23rd, 2003, 07:53 AM	#1
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	PD170 vs VX2100 questions These are interesting comments. I have had a vx1000, and a vx2000. I am torn if I want a vx2100 or a PD170. This new sound problem clearly makes me wait until they have shipped for a while. But, this repair cost is another interesting data point. I had read the prosumer stuff was more expensive that then consumer stuff. So, if the PD170 would be a flat fee of $550, what is the flat fee for repair on a vx2100? Am still having a tough time deciding which way I want to go. I know the video quality between the two cameras is the same. So, I am left with audio and form factor. I have carried the vx1000/2000 around and though large, its not been an issue. My concern is if I were to get the PD170, with all the extra audio hanging off of it, it may become a pain carrying it around. Any thoughts? I really haven’t had audio issues with my vx2000 series stuff. I have the adapters and pieces I have used. I can see the xlr has some pluses, but I struggle against all the possible cons. Thanks for any thoughts. Dave

December 25th, 2003, 12:13 PM	#4
Raymond Siew Tourist Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 2	Hi, I am a products speciallist in an IT firm. I am thinking to make some extra money out of my weekend. I would like to buy a camera and get business started as a part time cameraman. I do not have target customer but plan to take up wedding and event shooting. I am consider this few models... Sony DSR-PD170 Sony DCR-VX2100 Panasonic AG-DVX100 which is the correct choice? Can you guys help me to make up my mind...? Thanks a lot. __________________ Raymond Siew

December 25th, 2003, 06:51 PM	#5
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	800 number support, discusions with the Support folks can extend to including a Sony engineer. The Support person will research questions, become your advocate with the repair center if necessary and adjudicate problems. It helps a lot. Repairs normally happen within a week instead of 6 weeks which reportedly is the turn-around time for the consumer products. I'm not certain what Cons you are talking about vis-a-vis XLR, Dave C. The other way, with 1/8" unbalanced inputs is less capable and you end up with more gear hanging off the equipment whenever you try to get good sound. There is no extra gear hanging off a 170 or 150 unless you chose to hang it there. I believe that for weddings, the 170 is the correct choice (understand that that is my opinion). You just about must use XLR sound gear in weddings which tosses out the 2100 if only because of the the extra gear you have to put up with. The Panny has been said to not be as good as the 150 in low light (I've not shot with one) and therefore would certainly not be as capable as the 170. Low light is almost always an issue with a wedding and reception combo. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

December 25th, 2003, 07:49 PM	#7
Raymond Siew Tourist Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 2	Dear Mike, Thanks for your precious opinion. I will fight my way out for 170. __________________ Raymond Siew

December 26th, 2003, 12:25 PM	#9
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	I don't carry my 150 on vacation. It would seem too much like work. I have a pocket-sized PC110 that I use since it also can snap reasonable stills. Other than a longer microphone, there isn't anything to bad about carrying a 150 or 170 around. I have changed the microphone mount to a CAC-12 which has a ball-joint so I can flip the microphone around and lower it to the camera body when I put it in the case. Another advantage of the 150 microphone is you can put a wind sock over it and kill the wind noise. You could probably do that to the 2000 with a foam cover from something like a Shure SM58 and then put the fuzzy cover over that. Both are sold by B&H just to mention a source. The flat fee is similar IIRC. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

December 23rd, 2003, 10:32 AM	#2
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Between the operational differences for the two cameras and the difference in support, I'll always purchase the 150/170 version of the products. I've put up with a VX-1000 and an XLR adapter. Not, in my opinion, the way to go just from the audio viewpoint. Search for a list of differences that have been published before on this forum. They are significant if you are trying to earn $ with your camera. Just my opinion. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

December 23rd, 2003, 07:23 PM	#3
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	What's the difference in support?

December 25th, 2003, 07:14 PM	#6
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	Does the PD have a miniplug-in, or just XLRs?

December 25th, 2003, 09:39 PM	#8
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	So, if the flat fee for the PD series is 550, is there a flat fee for the vx series also? If so, how much? My only comment no the XLR stuff on the PD series is its just more stuff to carry. Meaning, my main use is carrying it on family vacations like to Disneyland. If I only used on a tripod, I would see as no big deal. So, does anyone carry their PD around compared to an VX and had any issues with the mic, etc as an example? Thanks Dave

January 13th, 2004, 12:15 AM	#10
David Korb Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: n.w. minnesota Posts: 35	To Dave Largent the pd does have a mini plug for external mic and on page 252 of the owners manual the comments include the following albeit confusing info connect an external microphone (optional). This jack also accepts a "plug-in-power" microphone. Be sure to use the ECM-S80 for the external microphone. im guessing the mic mentioned above is some kind of proprietary mic manufactured by Sony not sure if this helps dave...but its what i see here

January 13th, 2004, 07:58 AM	#11
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	So, just wondering about the pd170 audio. So, from what I have read, it records mono on one track. So, what do folks do in post to be able to have a "stereo" effort with using both tracks? dave

January 13th, 2004, 01:03 PM	#12
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	You can direct the audio to both tracks with independent levels if you wish on the 150/170. Many of us do that to prevent a suddenly loud sound event from overdriving both channels. In Post, one just Pans the sound to the tracks that are desired and away you go. From what I've heard and observed, most video and movie dialog is mono. True stereo is only used (along with 5.1, 6.1, 7.1) to locate the source in the sound field when it is clearly not near the center AFAIK. Otherwise it would be distracting. I'm certain that productions that can afford superior sound work do move the audio around in the sound field. Why not? Perhaps Douglas or some other experienced sound producer can talk to that point. That does not mean that the sound won't be found on both stereo channels or that stereo is not broadcast. Just that the audio is pretty much identical on both channels. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

January 16th, 2004, 03:26 AM	#13
Patrick Grealy Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 90	I often record music events using my own Mics and a sub mixer (often using more than 4 mics) If I dont want to record to a separate source (e.g. mini-disk) I will often pan different sources to the 2 ausdio tracks on my PDX10 (same audio as PD150/170) e.g. string section of an orchestra on one and wind/percussion on the other. It helps to have this separation in post in case some rebalancing needs to be done. Alternatively, I may decied to record a stereo mix straight to the camera using the 2 inputs. The point is that having 2 tracks and 2 inputs can give you some more choices. (If 4 were available, I for one would use them!) Regards P __________________ Sony PDX10 by 2, DRS-11, Dual G5, FCX, DVDSP and Logic Plat. www.VarsityMusicVideo.com

January 22nd, 2004, 08:35 PM	#14
Lyndon Golanowski Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Edmonton, Alberta Posts: 51	so it is only audio difference ?

January 22nd, 2004, 11:22 PM	#15
Law Tyler Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 204	Get the PD-170. I just now tried to split the VX2100 audio, so that one channel comes from one receiver, the other channel a different receiver. DOES NOT WORK. Don't know why. I guess you have to get a DXA-8 to make it work that way. One receiver going to both channel, that works fine. So, spend the extra few hundred and get the PD-170. My VX2100 is now relagate to #2 cam forever.