GL1 or VX2000? at DVinfo.net

June 25th, 2002, 10:11 AM

Short and sweet:
Do I get the GL1 and the rebate, or do I spend a few hundred more and get the VX2000? I am just going to be using this for some short films/ parodies. I have no problem paying a bit extra if you get value in return. Is the 'frame movie mode' all its cracked up to be in the GL1, and does that alone make it more attractive than the Sony? is the 16:9 ratio on Sony that much better than the GL1? Are they both able to acheive a 'filmy look' ( I know neither will be perfect in that regard)? I'll be buying one or the other in the next 48 hours. Any help is greatly appreciated :-)
-Chris Rex
http://www.chrisrex.com

Matt Stahley · June 25th, 2002, 11:41 AM

get the vx2000 you wont be sorry!!! you can find a lot of comparisons and reviews on the web. i also think you can achieve a better "film look" in post anyway. just my opinion, though im sure the gl1 is nice too! but ive always been about sony and the vx2000 is probably the best in its class.

Mike Rehmus · June 25th, 2002, 12:04 PM

I do believe the GL1 has been discontinued. While there are no doubt some units still available, you need to carefully consider what this means. With Japanese products, discontinued has serious implications for the consumer.

The Support clock has started. Sooner rather than later, the support for this camera will disappear.

It will no longer be the hot topic of conversation around the Internet as it is being replaced. So there is just less support (wierd but true) and it will taper off as the camera is replaced by newer models in the hands of the users.

The value of the camera just took a large dump. If you had to sell the camera for one reason or another, it's value will be less, the further you get from the discontinued date.

That said, lots of people like the GL1 but the PD-150 is a higher class of camera.

Progressive scan (and film look) is really overrated in my opinion. You are not going to transfer your video to film, your viewers will not be able to tell the difference between progressive and normal scan. I'd not worry about it.

Sort of like buying the marketing hype about Monster Cables. It's mainly, if not all, marketing BS.

Jim Sauza · June 25th, 2002, 05:32 PM

Hi everybody

Cannon has just released its updated gl-1 now called the gl-2, just as they updated the xl-1 with the xl-1s. Chris, you might just want to check it out.
Jim

Bryan Beasleigh · June 25th, 2002, 05:50 PM

For the first little while the GL2 will be the same price or very close to the VX2K. The VX2K blew the XL1S picture away and so it will with the GL2. There is just no comparison with a 1/4 and 1/3" CCD.

June 25th, 2002, 06:41 PM

All of your comments are greatly appreciated. I'm still in the mulling process, but you've been most helpful so far. Keep 'em coming, if you cant think of anything to add :-) I do believe that the quality of the vx2000 to be superior... the problem is that I have a line on a gl1 which, after rebate, will cost around 1750. Im trying to convince myself to save the Xhundred dollars and enjoy the frame movie mode thingee. That 1750 is a nice amount less than the Sony. Since money is not water, this is what makes my decision hard right now :-/
-Chris
http://www.chrisrex.com

Chris Hurd · June 27th, 2002, 01:35 PM

<< There is just no comparison with a 1/4 and 1/3" CCD. >>

Sorry, but this just isn't true. CCD size does not make or break the ability of the camera. For example, the GL1 (with 1/4" chips) image perfectly matches the XL1 (with 1/3" chips) and video from both will intercut seamlessly. There are many factors to consider other than CCD size. The Sony TRV900 with 1/4" chips has an image quality superior to the Sony VX1000 with 1/3" chips.

I think the biggest difference between the GL1 (or GL2 for that matter) and the VX2000 is the flavor of the video... the Canon look vs. the Sony look. One is not "better" than the other. It's a personal preference, like your favorite kind of ice cream. The important thing is to choose the one which feels right in your hands and whose video is more appealing to your eye. For some it's Sony, for some it's Canon. Try both before you buy. Hope this helps,

Bryan Beasleigh · June 27th, 2002, 03:58 PM

I'm sorry but I could see a difference and that difference was from the 1/4 to 1/3" models. Whether or not that was relative to the size of the chips may be another matter, but that's the way it turned out. What you may perceive as truth may not be the same as others see it.

When I did my comparisons, I tried to do them as blindly as possible. People told me that the 900 was a perfect match with and transparent to the VX2000. It was not. Same as the GL1 and XL1S. Could footage be intercut sure thing. Would I notice the difference? You bet I would. I do carry things to extremes though.

I do agree with your observations on the "flavour" of the video. As much as I wanted to like the XL1S (I loved it's look and ergonomics) I just could'nt accept the picture quality.

Chris Hurd · June 27th, 2002, 04:06 PM

<< What you may perceive as truth may not be the same as others see it. >>

This is a very good point and I'm glad you said it. It applies equally to you as well as me and to everyone else for that matter.

I did not compare the GL1 to the XL1S; I compared the GL1 to the XL1. They are indeed a perfect match (with the sharpness in the GL1 turned down by one or two notches) despite the difference in CCD size.

My mantra for new camera purchases is always "try before you buy." For some, Sony is the perfect choice; for others it is Canon or perhaps some other manufacturer. I'll continue to urge people to draw their own conclusions in finding what's right for their own specific needs.

Let's now return to our regular, forum-specific Sony DV camcorder programming!

Much respect,

Nathan Gifford · June 28th, 2002, 10:20 AM

I think the VX2K is probably a better overall cam when compared to the GL1. However, now that the GL1 is discontinued and store will mark down their remaining units, a GL1 could be a much better deal.

The money saved on GL1 can be used to purchase anamorphic lens or other interesting and useful accessories.

*** B U T ***

Pay attention to what Chris says and try before you buy.

Nathan Gifford

wallflower · July 2nd, 2002, 01:04 AM

Okay. This is my first post. I'm also in the market for a dv cam, and my web research has brought it down to the GL2 and the VX2000. I would LOVE to test them out for myself, but you can't go into a Best Buy or whatever electronics chain sells camcorders and find them. At least, I haven't been able to so far. So. My questions are:
1. Any idea where I CAN find these to test them out for myself?
2. How do these two compare size-wise? My hands are pretty small, and I would like to be fairly inconspicuous with my camera. I know I won't be invisible, but I'd like not to look like a camera crew. Also, my bicycle is my main mode of transportation. I do not own a car. Whatever I buy needs to fit in my panniers - along with batteries, charger, tripod, tapes. Is this realistic for either of these two models?
3. The major advantage I've been seeing repeated over and over again in comparisons between these two is that the VX2000 has superior low-light capability. Any idea how that'll change with the GL2?
I have to say, I've been reading these over the past week and am so amazed by the information I've been able to find. I don't usually talk to strangers online, but this feels okay for some reason.
Also, you were right about your sponsors, from what I've seen so far. I've been exchanging e-mails with Brian at Zotz, and he has been really helpful without being pushy. I haven't committed to anything with him, and yet he's been extremely responsive to my qustions. Thanks for providing this resource. There are so many "discount webstores" with horrible customer ratings. It's a nightmare trying to wade through them all.

Hope this isn't too long. I'd appreciate any information. This is a huge purchase, and I don't want to regret my decision.

Thanks.

Chris Hurd · July 2nd, 2002, 06:58 AM

Howdy from Texas,

<< 1. Any idea where I CAN find these to test them out for myself? >>

In the western U.S., go to any Ultimate Electronics retail location and they'll have both the VX2000 and GL2 (once it ships) out on display for you to hold and compare. Video signal runs to a 13" monitor, you can punch a button back and forth between cameras. www.ultimateelectronics.com

<< 2. How do these two compare size-wise? >>

They're just about the same size.

<< my bicycle is my main mode of transportation. >>

With the right soft pack, this shouldn't be a problem.

<< the VX2000 has superior low-light capability. Any idea how that'll change with the GL2? >>

You've been reading newsgroups, haven't you... those guys are judging the GL2's low-light capability without even seeing it... I think that as the camera gets out into the market and is used and reported on, an accurate assessment of its low-light capabilities will come forth. This particular feature should not make or break your decision anyway, as the two cameras are very close in this regard.

<< I don't usually talk to strangers online, but this feels okay for some reason. >>

That's quite a compliment, thanks; the idea behind our community is to provide a safe environment where you can get straight answers about this big purchase you're going to make, with any nonsense or garbage getting in the way.

<< Also, you were right about your sponsors, from what I've seen so far. I've been exchanging e-mails with Brian at Zotz, and he has been really helpful without being pushy. I haven't committed to anything with him, and yet he's been extremely responsive to my qustions. >>

Brian is a great guy and it means a lot to me to have him on board. I'll tell you this much, you simply can't go wrong if you choose to buy from him. He's one of the best, most highly reputable dealers in the business.

<< There are so many "discount webstores" with horrible customer ratings. It's a nightmare trying to wade through them all. >>

Not any more... welcome home,

wallflower · July 2nd, 2002, 06:37 PM

<< the western U.S., go to any Ultimate Electronics retail location >>
Unfortunately, the closest one to me is in Idaho. I live in Seattle. And, as I said, my bike is my only form of transportation. Anyone in the Seattle area who might have the VX2000 and at least the GL1, so I can get an idea?

<<With the right soft pack, this shouldn't be a problem.>>
Brian at Zotz recommended a hard case. It sounds like that would be a bit bulky to get into a bike pannier. My instinct is go with a soft case as well. Any opinions on why the hard pack was recommended? (I guess I should just ask him this, but I'd like an independent opinion as well.)

<<You've been reading newsgroups, haven't you...
Yes. Lots of 'em.

<<those guys are judging the GL2's low-light capability without even seeing it... >>
Well, most of what I've read has had to do with the GL1, to be honest. The complaints I've seen about low-light performance are in reference to the "older" model. My sense is that this is one of the features that has been improved on the GL2. Do you know anything about this? I don't want to base my entire purchase on this one feature, but the truth is, I'll be filming in "natural" lighting almost all of the time (with no added light for the camera, that is. I don't know the technical term for that). Sometimes, I'll be shooting theatre performances with very stark lighting. So this is an important consideration for me.... And I'd really like to make this decision soon, to start a project in August. So I don't think I'm going to be able to wait for other folks to make comparisons. It looks like I'm just gonna have to go with my gut.

<<welcome home >>
Thank you! It's very cool to be able to talk to people who know what they're doing and aren't worried about making a commission off of me. Any other input would be welcome. I'll be making a decision over the next coupla weeks.

Jeff Donald · July 2nd, 2002, 07:58 PM

Hi Wallflower,

You might try some of the Cameras West locations. They are owned by Ritz Camera now and some Ritz stores stock the VX2000. Ritz used to stock the GL1 and will probably stock the GL2 when it ships. However, I think your decision may be made up for you. It may be weeks before the GL2 ships. Your August deadline my eliminate the GL2. i would want to allow several weeks to practice with a new camera before attempting a major project. Good luck.

Jeff

Jay Gladwell · July 30th, 2002, 06:00 PM

Just read this thread (July 30). Based on the "nightmare" thread started by blacksvn, I wouldn't touch a Sony with a barge pole! That is one major reason I went with Canon--the XL1 Owners' Club. I had to send my XL1s to them for a problem shortly after I bought it. They fixed it--no charge--and had back to me within 10 days (including shipping both directions) from the time I sent it. THAT is a valuable item to consider when purchasing anything, especially a camera!

June 25th, 2002, 10:11 AM	#1
chrisrex Posts: n/a	GL1 or VX2000? Short and sweet: Do I get the GL1 and the rebate, or do I spend a few hundred more and get the VX2000? I am just going to be using this for some short films/ parodies. I have no problem paying a bit extra if you get value in return. Is the 'frame movie mode' all its cracked up to be in the GL1, and does that alone make it more attractive than the Sony? is the 16:9 ratio on Sony that much better than the GL1? Are they both able to acheive a 'filmy look' ( I know neither will be perfect in that regard)? I'll be buying one or the other in the next 48 hours. Any help is greatly appreciated :-) -Chris Rex http://www.chrisrex.com

June 25th, 2002, 12:04 PM	#3
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	I do believe the GL1 has been discontinued. While there are no doubt some units still available, you need to carefully consider what this means. With Japanese products, discontinued has serious implications for the consumer. The Support clock has started. Sooner rather than later, the support for this camera will disappear. It will no longer be the hot topic of conversation around the Internet as it is being replaced. So there is just less support (wierd but true) and it will taper off as the camera is replaced by newer models in the hands of the users. The value of the camera just took a large dump. If you had to sell the camera for one reason or another, it's value will be less, the further you get from the discontinued date. That said, lots of people like the GL1 but the PD-150 is a higher class of camera. Progressive scan (and film look) is really overrated in my opinion. You are not going to transfer your video to film, your viewers will not be able to tell the difference between progressive and normal scan. I'd not worry about it. Sort of like buying the marketing hype about Monster Cables. It's mainly, if not all, marketing BS. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

June 25th, 2002, 05:32 PM	#4
Jim Sauza "SuperSparks" Join Date: May 2002 Location: Stafford Va. USA Posts: 41	Hi everybody Cannon has just released its updated gl-1 now called the gl-2, just as they updated the xl-1 with the xl-1s. Chris, you might just want to check it out. Jim __________________ -------------------------- Hump? What Hump?

June 27th, 2002, 01:35 PM	#7
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	<< There is just no comparison with a 1/4 and 1/3" CCD. >> Sorry, but this just isn't true. CCD size does not make or break the ability of the camera. For example, the GL1 (with 1/4" chips) image perfectly matches the XL1 (with 1/3" chips) and video from both will intercut seamlessly. There are many factors to consider other than CCD size. The Sony TRV900 with 1/4" chips has an image quality superior to the Sony VX1000 with 1/3" chips. I think the biggest difference between the GL1 (or GL2 for that matter) and the VX2000 is the flavor of the video... the Canon look vs. the Sony look. One is not "better" than the other. It's a personal preference, like your favorite kind of ice cream. The important thing is to choose the one which feels right in your hands and whose video is more appealing to your eye. For some it's Sony, for some it's Canon. Try both before you buy. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

June 27th, 2002, 04:06 PM	#9
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	<< What you may perceive as truth may not be the same as others see it. >> This is a very good point and I'm glad you said it. It applies equally to you as well as me and to everyone else for that matter. I did not compare the GL1 to the XL1S; I compared the GL1 to the XL1. They are indeed a perfect match (with the sharpness in the GL1 turned down by one or two notches) despite the difference in CCD size. My mantra for new camera purchases is always "try before you buy." For some, Sony is the perfect choice; for others it is Canon or perhaps some other manufacturer. I'll continue to urge people to draw their own conclusions in finding what's right for their own specific needs. Let's now return to our regular, forum-specific Sony DV camcorder programming! Much respect, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

June 25th, 2002, 11:41 AM	#2
Matt Stahley Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Waynesboro, PA Posts: 648	get the vx2000 you wont be sorry!!! you can find a lot of comparisons and reviews on the web. i also think you can achieve a better "film look" in post anyway. just my opinion, though im sure the gl1 is nice too! but ive always been about sony and the vx2000 is probably the best in its class.

June 25th, 2002, 05:50 PM	#5
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	For the first little while the GL2 will be the same price or very close to the VX2K. The VX2K blew the XL1S picture away and so it will with the GL2. There is just no comparison with a 1/4 and 1/3" CCD.

June 25th, 2002, 06:41 PM	#6
chrisrex Posts: n/a	All of your comments are greatly appreciated. I'm still in the mulling process, but you've been most helpful so far. Keep 'em coming, if you cant think of anything to add :-) I do believe that the quality of the vx2000 to be superior... the problem is that I have a line on a gl1 which, after rebate, will cost around 1750. Im trying to convince myself to save the Xhundred dollars and enjoy the frame movie mode thingee. That 1750 is a nice amount less than the Sony. Since money is not water, this is what makes my decision hard right now :-/ -Chris http://www.chrisrex.com

June 27th, 2002, 03:58 PM	#8
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	I'm sorry but I could see a difference and that difference was from the 1/4 to 1/3" models. Whether or not that was relative to the size of the chips may be another matter, but that's the way it turned out. What you may perceive as truth may not be the same as others see it. When I did my comparisons, I tried to do them as blindly as possible. People told me that the 900 was a perfect match with and transparent to the VX2000. It was not. Same as the GL1 and XL1S. Could footage be intercut sure thing. Would I notice the difference? You bet I would. I do carry things to extremes though. I do agree with your observations on the "flavour" of the video. As much as I wanted to like the XL1S (I loved it's look and ergonomics) I just could'nt accept the picture quality.

June 28th, 2002, 10:20 AM	#10
Nathan Gifford Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tickfaw, LA Posts: 1,217	The real advantage of GL1 is the price. I think the VX2K is probably a better overall cam when compared to the GL1. However, now that the GL1 is discontinued and store will mark down their remaining units, a GL1 could be a much better deal. The money saved on GL1 can be used to purchase anamorphic lens or other interesting and useful accessories. * B U T * Pay attention to what Chris says and try before you buy. Nathan Gifford

July 2nd, 2002, 01:04 AM	#11
wallflower New Boot Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 5	Okay. This is my first post. I'm also in the market for a dv cam, and my web research has brought it down to the GL2 and the VX2000. I would LOVE to test them out for myself, but you can't go into a Best Buy or whatever electronics chain sells camcorders and find them. At least, I haven't been able to so far. So. My questions are: 1. Any idea where I CAN find these to test them out for myself? 2. How do these two compare size-wise? My hands are pretty small, and I would like to be fairly inconspicuous with my camera. I know I won't be invisible, but I'd like not to look like a camera crew. Also, my bicycle is my main mode of transportation. I do not own a car. Whatever I buy needs to fit in my panniers - along with batteries, charger, tripod, tapes. Is this realistic for either of these two models? 3. The major advantage I've been seeing repeated over and over again in comparisons between these two is that the VX2000 has superior low-light capability. Any idea how that'll change with the GL2? I have to say, I've been reading these over the past week and am so amazed by the information I've been able to find. I don't usually talk to strangers online, but this feels okay for some reason. Also, you were right about your sponsors, from what I've seen so far. I've been exchanging e-mails with Brian at Zotz, and he has been really helpful without being pushy. I haven't committed to anything with him, and yet he's been extremely responsive to my qustions. Thanks for providing this resource. There are so many "discount webstores" with horrible customer ratings. It's a nightmare trying to wade through them all. Hope this isn't too long. I'd appreciate any information. This is a huge purchase, and I don't want to regret my decision. Thanks.

July 2nd, 2002, 06:58 AM	#12
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Howdy from Texas, << 1. Any idea where I CAN find these to test them out for myself? >> In the western U.S., go to any Ultimate Electronics retail location and they'll have both the VX2000 and GL2 (once it ships) out on display for you to hold and compare. Video signal runs to a 13" monitor, you can punch a button back and forth between cameras. www.ultimateelectronics.com << 2. How do these two compare size-wise? >> They're just about the same size. << my bicycle is my main mode of transportation. >> With the right soft pack, this shouldn't be a problem. << the VX2000 has superior low-light capability. Any idea how that'll change with the GL2? >> You've been reading newsgroups, haven't you... those guys are judging the GL2's low-light capability without even seeing it... I think that as the camera gets out into the market and is used and reported on, an accurate assessment of its low-light capabilities will come forth. This particular feature should not make or break your decision anyway, as the two cameras are very close in this regard. << I don't usually talk to strangers online, but this feels okay for some reason. >> That's quite a compliment, thanks; the idea behind our community is to provide a safe environment where you can get straight answers about this big purchase you're going to make, with any nonsense or garbage getting in the way. << Also, you were right about your sponsors, from what I've seen so far. I've been exchanging e-mails with Brian at Zotz, and he has been really helpful without being pushy. I haven't committed to anything with him, and yet he's been extremely responsive to my qustions. >> Brian is a great guy and it means a lot to me to have him on board. I'll tell you this much, you simply can't go wrong if you choose to buy from him. He's one of the best, most highly reputable dealers in the business. << There are so many "discount webstores" with horrible customer ratings. It's a nightmare trying to wade through them all. >> Not any more... welcome home, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

July 2nd, 2002, 06:37 PM	#13
wallflower New Boot Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 5	<< the western U.S., go to any Ultimate Electronics retail location >> Unfortunately, the closest one to me is in Idaho. I live in Seattle. And, as I said, my bike is my only form of transportation. Anyone in the Seattle area who might have the VX2000 and at least the GL1, so I can get an idea? <<With the right soft pack, this shouldn't be a problem.>> Brian at Zotz recommended a hard case. It sounds like that would be a bit bulky to get into a bike pannier. My instinct is go with a soft case as well. Any opinions on why the hard pack was recommended? (I guess I should just ask him this, but I'd like an independent opinion as well.) <<You've been reading newsgroups, haven't you... Yes. Lots of 'em. <<those guys are judging the GL2's low-light capability without even seeing it... >> Well, most of what I've read has had to do with the GL1, to be honest. The complaints I've seen about low-light performance are in reference to the "older" model. My sense is that this is one of the features that has been improved on the GL2. Do you know anything about this? I don't want to base my entire purchase on this one feature, but the truth is, I'll be filming in "natural" lighting almost all of the time (with no added light for the camera, that is. I don't know the technical term for that). Sometimes, I'll be shooting theatre performances with very stark lighting. So this is an important consideration for me.... And I'd really like to make this decision soon, to start a project in August. So I don't think I'm going to be able to wait for other folks to make comparisons. It looks like I'm just gonna have to go with my gut. <<welcome home >> Thank you! It's very cool to be able to talk to people who know what they're doing and aren't worried about making a commission off of me. Any other input would be welcome. I'll be making a decision over the next coupla weeks.

July 2nd, 2002, 07:58 PM	#14
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Hi Wallflower, You might try some of the Cameras West locations. They are owned by Ritz Camera now and some Ritz stores stock the VX2000. Ritz used to stock the GL1 and will probably stock the GL2 when it ships. However, I think your decision may be made up for you. It may be weeks before the GL2 ships. Your August deadline my eliminate the GL2. i would want to allow several weeks to practice with a new camera before attempting a major project. Good luck. Jeff

July 30th, 2002, 06:00 PM	#15
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	Just read this thread (July 30). Based on the "nightmare" thread started by blacksvn, I wouldn't touch a Sony with a barge pole! That is one major reason I went with Canon--the XL1 Owners' Club. I had to send my XL1s to them for a problem shortly after I bought it. They fixed it--no charge--and had back to me within 10 days (including shipping both directions) from the time I sent it. THAT is a valuable item to consider when purchasing anything, especially a camera!