Digital Zoom on PD170 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony VX2100 / PD170 / PDX10 Companion

Sony VX2100 / PD170 / PDX10 Companion
Topics also include Sony's TRV950, VX2000, PD150 & DSR250 family.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 20th, 2004, 07:09 PM   #1
Tourist
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Westland, MI.
Posts: 4
Digital Zoom on PD170

I need a camcorder that has a good low lux and good zoom, around 20X. Since the "170" is 12X optical, can any of the digital be used to get it out somewhere near 20 without serious picture fallout. I've read a number of good reviews on the '170" but the digital zoom is never mentioned. Also would the 1.7X Sony telephoto be worth the purchase... or are extenders only good at maximum zoom.
Tom Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 20th, 2004, 07:26 PM   #2
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mays Landing, NJ
Posts: 11,542
Tom, your thread was posted to the wrong forum so I used my moderator privileges to move it here.

I didn't think the PD-170 even had a digital zoom - does it? If so I wouldn't expect much because the CCD's are not high enough resolution. The PDX-10 actually has a very good digital zoom however (also 12x optical). It has megapixel CCD's which allow it to do a much better job with this though. Also, you can get Sony's high grade 2x teleconverter for the PDX-10 and due to the 37mm thread size it's reasonably priced. Gives really nice results, and if you add the digital on top of that you get 48x. I have been able photograph sunspots and moon craters this way!

Of course the PDX-10 has its own quirks, and has smaller CCD's so not as good in very low light situations. Visit our forum if you want more info on the PDX-10 http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisp...?s=&forumid=43.

I'm sure someone will chime in with more info on the PD-170 here as well.
Boyd Ostroff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 20th, 2004, 07:54 PM   #3
Tourist
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Westland, MI.
Posts: 4
Digital Zoom on PD170

Thanks Boyd for getting this tourist in the correct forum and the info on the "10", I'll check it out.
Tom Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 20th, 2004, 09:26 PM   #4
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mays Landing, NJ
Posts: 11,542
You're welcome Tom. The PDX-10 is a great camera, but may not fit your desire for "low lux."

Please double check what forum/thread you're in before posting. You created a new, duplicate thread with your last message. I've merged them together to keep everything in the same place.

Welcome to DVinfo.net, glad to have you aboard!
Boyd Ostroff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2004, 08:14 AM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Posts: 3,778
PD170 has digital zoom. It goes to 48x. I've played with it a few times and it looks reasonable although I'm not a fan of using digital zooms.
Craig Seeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2004, 08:35 AM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Waterloo Ontario
Posts: 721
...when shopping ...

The consumer wide eyed banners and product stickers that are attached to the camera are just hype. Digital Zoom falls into the chasm of goodies that for a professional are to be avoided. If you really want sepia tones, barn door wipes or pan and scan below 720x480 you would of course do this at the NLE. If the "goodies" are part of your want list, you will find a myriad of these to swim through. Subjectively, they are hard to stack up against one another.
The default reaction is to ignore. Digital zoom is for vacationers who want an ECU on the water-skiier, or other "target-rich" areas of the beach that might benefit from a digital extension of the lens.
Jimmy McKenzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2004, 09:03 AM   #7
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mays Landing, NJ
Posts: 11,542
Jimmy, this is true in most cases and digital zoom is no substitute for optical by any means. However I think you need to look a little more closely at the specific cameras before making a knee-jerk reaction to digital zoom. The PDX-10's CCD's have 1152x864 pixels. These are downsampled to create the 720x480 DV image. So when using the digital zoom you can actually squeeze a little more resolution out of the system. Some other new camcorders (single chippers mostly) have even higher resolution CCD's and may be able to do better.

I am not an advocate for digital zoom, but on a few occasions I've played with it on the PDX-10 and was surprised at the results. But normally I just use my 2x optical telephoto adaptor. It yields excellent results that are far better than the digital effect.
Boyd Ostroff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2004, 09:24 AM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Waterloo Ontario
Posts: 721
I am not an advocate for digital zoom, but on a few occasions I've played with it on the PDX-10 and was surprised at the results. But normally I just use my 2x optical telephoto adaptor. It yields excellent results that are far better than the digital effect.

Well summarized. If you can accomplish it at the lens, that is the best. I'm not farmiliar with the brand in question, but it would seem that the device is trying to be a still camera as well, given the larger pixel count. There must be a memory stick on this cam...
Jimmy McKenzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2004, 09:38 AM   #9
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mays Landing, NJ
Posts: 11,542
The PDX-10 is sort of the little brother to the PD-170, it is part of Sony's pro line of camcorders that records DVCAM and offers XLR audio. It can take stills to memory stick, although I don't use that feature. The main attraction of the high res CCD's is that they offer real 16:9 performance, something that the PD-170 can't do. Visit our forum to learn more about the PDX-10 and its siblings the TRV-950 and HC-1000 which use the same optics and CCD's.
Boyd Ostroff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2004, 11:13 AM   #10
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 148
I find it really..od actually that such a pro camera like the PD170/150 have such little zoom. I mean..I see 400.00 miniDV camera with 18x or 20x Optical zoom...
__________________
Because im that...damn...good.
Cory Moorehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2004, 01:11 PM   #11
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: California
Posts: 139
The 24X digital zoom is usable in some cases with the VX or PD. The clarity is nowhere near the clarity with only optical zoom, but it does allow one to zoom up on distant objects. The nice thing about the interface is that there is a line in the zoom guage in the viewfinder that shows when you pass the optical zoom limit. Therefore you can use optical zoom selectively if you pay attention to the zoom indicator. I use optical zoom to view injuries across the football field when I am trying to figure out the number of the injured player and what seems to be injured. But I typically try to stay away from digital zoom when I am filming plays.

When one doesn't need real time digital zoom, there is always the ability to do zooms in post production. I have never formally compared the quality of the post production zooms to the digital zoom on the camera. My sense is that the post production zooms are better.
Alan Christensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2004, 03:08 PM   #12
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Billericay, England UK
Posts: 4,711
Sorry to put the brakes on here, but even the smallest amout of digital zoom degrades the image quite noticeably. Thing is that you never need to use digital zoom as doing it in post gives the same results and is just as destructive, yet you've always got the original hi-res footage to fall back onto.

Go with a telephoto converter every time. Of course adding a 2x converter will reduce the 170's 12x zoom down to something like a 5x zoom, but at least it'll double the focal length (which is presumably what you've bought it for).

I'm constantly amazed at opinions such as Corey's that a 12x zoom is ''so short''. You could well have a 16x or a 20x zoom lens Cory, there's no problem with that. But if you want to cover big 1/3" chips, the 20x zoom is going to be BIG (look at the XL2) and expensive (look at the XL2) and heavy (XL2). Sony has hit a good compromise in my opinion, and it's the Panasonic with its 10x zoom on the DVX100 that starts to look short.

tom.
Tom Hardwick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2004, 03:12 PM   #13
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 148
Sure it will cost more..but look at the GL2. 20x zoom. Sure the chips are a bit smaller..but I mean..ifsony really wanted to..they could even give a 16x or 18x zoom..sure maybe 200.00 more..but its good to haveit when you need it.
__________________
Because im that...damn...good.
Cory Moorehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2004, 06:39 PM   #14
Tourist
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Westland, MI.
Posts: 4
Digital Zoom on PD170

Thanks everyone for all the information. If I understand correctly, digital zooms are generally not used... especially on a 170 type but according to Boyd, not bad on camera's with high capacity CCD's like the PDX-10...but then there is the low light problem. I think even Canon's XL2 does not come very close to the "170" in low light according to some of the threads I've read. Would you "all" agree that the XL2 for shooting a concert or wedding where the client wants a certain effect, (candle light etc.) the XL2 comes up a little short in the low light area or if much gain is used the picture is seriously noisy.
Tom Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2004, 06:53 PM   #15
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Waterloo Ontario
Posts: 721
The Canon xl series is certainly worth investigation. If the bulk of what you will be doing requires indoor practical lighting you will be scrambling in certain areas. Wedding are always a wild card. Gain=grain. You don't have to be in the middle of the exposure meter. Keep the gain to 0 if possible indoors and your choice outdoors of 0 or -3 db.
For event, concert and stage, you will have lighting involved.
Jimmy McKenzie is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony HDV and DV Camera Systems > Sony VX2100 / PD170 / PDX10 Companion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:44 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network