Mini DV Format on PD-150? Ebay? at DVinfo.net

Alex Kamm · February 24th, 2003, 07:36 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3009851302&category=21165

Guys I've had this question for along time... Can you actually record in Mini DV format?

Erik Selakoff · February 24th, 2003, 11:28 PM

Yes. With the PD-150 you can record in either DVCAM or MiniDV format.

Alex Kamm · February 25th, 2003, 03:19 AM

Thanx

Rick Spilman · February 25th, 2003, 09:28 AM

A tiny clarification, but one which seems to confuse folks. DV and DVCAM are both formats. "Mini" as in Mini-DV" is a tape size.

A PD150 will record in either DV or DVCAM. It will only record on a "mini" tape.

Edward Seid · February 25th, 2003, 10:01 AM

IIRC, miniDV refers to the physical tape format.
DV and DVCAM refer to the encoding algorithm used to record to tape.

The PD150 supports the DV and DVCAM encoding algorithms. The PD150 does not support other digital encoding algorithms such as DVCPRO and Digital8. In either case, miniDV is the physical format that must be used with the PD150.

For a comparison of the different digital encoding formats, visit www.videouniversity.com/dvformat.htm.

Rick Spilman · February 25th, 2003, 10:20 AM

The PD150 can only play and record on a mini-cassette tape. It can record in either the DV format or the DVCAM format on the mini-cassette tape.

Mini-DV is a bit confusing as it refers to both the physical size of the tape and the recording format. To confuse things further you can buy either mini-DV tapes or mini-DVCAM tapes for the PD150. It will record equally well in either format on either type of tape. The mini-DVCAM tape is supposed to be more robust. As a practical matter most folks use min-DV tapes even for recording DVCAM.

There are of course also full size tapes which are primarily used to record DVCAM and sold as such, though some cameras are made to record on full size tapes in DV.

My point was, and I may regret raising this small point, is that there is no "mini-DV" format. There is DV and DVCAM. The PD150 will record in either. And yes there are lots of other digital formats too.

Chris Hurd · February 25th, 2003, 10:31 AM

<< there is no "mini-DV" format. There is DV and DVCAM >>

Absolutely, and thanks for bringing this up, Rick. All too often, at trade shows I'll hold up a standard full-size DV cassette, and somebody gets confused. They'll say, "that must be DVCAM, because it's too big to be Mini-DV." And I'll have to quickly educate them that yes it is just plain vanilla DV, and that Mini-DV is *not* a tape format. It can't be preated too often, as far as I'm concerned.

Alex Kamm · March 2nd, 2003, 01:30 AM

haha.. thanx guys! you know I would have never know that fact that it uses a mini dv tape... thanx! and I got 2 PD-150's :)

Robert Aldrich · March 3rd, 2003, 01:16 AM

OK, you guys seem knowledgeable on this, what about this...does the DVCam format require the DVCam tapes? I know that the Mini-DV tapes will work in DVCam mode, but it has occurred to me that they might be using a different bias on the recording head for DVCam because the DVCam tapes are actually a much finer quality tape which may also require a different bias also.

I talked to a pro about this once and because I'd only had the camera about a month, misunderstood his reply and have wondered what he said ever since. His response was that you had to should always use DVCam tapes in DVCam mode but I don't recall the very specific answer (which explained why) that he gave me.

Rick Spilman · March 3rd, 2003, 05:26 AM

Unless I have a good reason to shoot DVCAM, I shoot DV. I use a minDV tape. When I shoot DVCAM I use the same tape. So far no problems.

Henrik Bengtsson · March 3rd, 2003, 05:59 AM

Basically, if you can afford to shoot on DVCAM tapes, then do so. The reason is that those tapes are going through a lot rougher and more thorough testing process, so in short, it's better quality that comes out from the production line.

We are talking about a chance that something goes wrong however, not that it will go wrong. I've used Mini-DV tapes and shot in DVCAM and edited it for a long time and have had no problems with it. But obviously, the risk of dropping frames or audio sync due to bad tape quality is always there. Its just not large enough for me to buy DVCAM media right now.

Regards,
Henrik

Robert Aldrich · March 3rd, 2003, 09:24 PM

Still, because it is a slightly different material on the tape I wonder if it requires a different bias much like the old standard audio cassettes versus the "metal" tapes.

I too have had no problems in a year and a half of use but still wonder what a Sony engineer would say.

Any Sony engineers reading this thread?

Mike Rehmus · March 4th, 2003, 09:15 AM

A Sony engineer would say that there is some difference but that the cameras can handle it or there would be some mechanism that would insure that the tape would not fit in the camera.

To repeat: It is a digital signal. As long as the camera and VTRs can detect a one and a zero there is no functional difference between tapes unless you are using a linear editing system.

Purchasing DVCam tapes for a NLE environment unless you are sending your raw footage to a studio that cares is a waste of money.

Rick Spilman · March 4th, 2003, 09:24 AM

Let's turn the question around. Is there any PD150 owner here who uses DVCAM tapes? Just curious.

Mike Rehmus · March 4th, 2003, 02:36 PM

If you mean as a normal mode, I do not.

February 24th, 2003, 07:36 PM	#1
Alex Kamm Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: SANFRANCISCO, CA Posts: 74	Mini DV Format on PD-150? Ebay? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3009851302&category=21165 Guys I've had this question for along time... Can you actually record in Mini DV format? __________________ RACESAUCE DOT COM \|Equipment: PD-150\|

February 25th, 2003, 03:19 AM	#3
Alex Kamm Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: SANFRANCISCO, CA Posts: 74	Thanx __________________ RACESAUCE DOT COM \|Equipment: PD-150\|

February 25th, 2003, 10:31 AM	#7
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	<< there is no "mini-DV" format. There is DV and DVCAM >> Absolutely, and thanks for bringing this up, Rick. All too often, at trade shows I'll hold up a standard full-size DV cassette, and somebody gets confused. They'll say, "that must be DVCAM, because it's too big to be Mini-DV." And I'll have to quickly educate them that yes it is just plain vanilla DV, and that Mini-DV is not a tape format. It can't be preated too often, as far as I'm concerned. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 2nd, 2003, 01:30 AM	#8
Alex Kamm Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: SANFRANCISCO, CA Posts: 74	haha.. thanx guys! you know I would have never know that fact that it uses a mini dv tape... thanx! and I got 2 PD-150's :) __________________ RACESAUCE DOT COM \|Equipment: PD-150\|

March 3rd, 2003, 05:59 AM	#11
Henrik Bengtsson Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Borås, Sweden Posts: 167	Basically, if you can afford to shoot on DVCAM tapes, then do so. The reason is that those tapes are going through a lot rougher and more thorough testing process, so in short, it's better quality that comes out from the production line. We are talking about a chance that something goes wrong however, not that it will go wrong. I've used Mini-DV tapes and shot in DVCAM and edited it for a long time and have had no problems with it. But obviously, the risk of dropping frames or audio sync due to bad tape quality is always there. Its just not large enough for me to buy DVCAM media right now. Regards, Henrik __________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Henrik "HuBBa" Bengtsson, Imaginara Fotographia,http://www.imaginara.se

February 24th, 2003, 11:28 PM	#2
Erik Selakoff Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: New York, NY Posts: 51	Yes. With the PD-150 you can record in either DVCAM or MiniDV format.

February 25th, 2003, 09:28 AM	#4
Rick Spilman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Jersey City, NJ Posts: 366	A tiny clarification, but one which seems to confuse folks. DV and DVCAM are both formats. "Mini" as in Mini-DV" is a tape size. A PD150 will record in either DV or DVCAM. It will only record on a "mini" tape.

February 25th, 2003, 10:01 AM	#5
Edward Seid Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 30	IIRC, miniDV refers to the physical tape format. DV and DVCAM refer to the encoding algorithm used to record to tape. The PD150 supports the DV and DVCAM encoding algorithms. The PD150 does not support other digital encoding algorithms such as DVCPRO and Digital8. In either case, miniDV is the physical format that must be used with the PD150. For a comparison of the different digital encoding formats, visit www.videouniversity.com/dvformat.htm.

February 25th, 2003, 10:20 AM	#6
Rick Spilman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Jersey City, NJ Posts: 366	The PD150 can only play and record on a mini-cassette tape. It can record in either the DV format or the DVCAM format on the mini-cassette tape. Mini-DV is a bit confusing as it refers to both the physical size of the tape and the recording format. To confuse things further you can buy either mini-DV tapes or mini-DVCAM tapes for the PD150. It will record equally well in either format on either type of tape. The mini-DVCAM tape is supposed to be more robust. As a practical matter most folks use min-DV tapes even for recording DVCAM. There are of course also full size tapes which are primarily used to record DVCAM and sold as such, though some cameras are made to record on full size tapes in DV. My point was, and I may regret raising this small point, is that there is no "mini-DV" format. There is DV and DVCAM. The PD150 will record in either. And yes there are lots of other digital formats too.

March 3rd, 2003, 01:16 AM	#9
Robert Aldrich Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 39	OK, you guys seem knowledgeable on this, what about this...does the DVCam format require the DVCam tapes? I know that the Mini-DV tapes will work in DVCam mode, but it has occurred to me that they might be using a different bias on the recording head for DVCam because the DVCam tapes are actually a much finer quality tape which may also require a different bias also. I talked to a pro about this once and because I'd only had the camera about a month, misunderstood his reply and have wondered what he said ever since. His response was that you had to should always use DVCam tapes in DVCam mode but I don't recall the very specific answer (which explained why) that he gave me.

March 3rd, 2003, 05:26 AM	#10
Rick Spilman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Jersey City, NJ Posts: 366	Unless I have a good reason to shoot DVCAM, I shoot DV. I use a minDV tape. When I shoot DVCAM I use the same tape. So far no problems.

March 3rd, 2003, 09:24 PM	#12
Robert Aldrich Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 39	Still, because it is a slightly different material on the tape I wonder if it requires a different bias much like the old standard audio cassettes versus the "metal" tapes. I too have had no problems in a year and a half of use but still wonder what a Sony engineer would say. Any Sony engineers reading this thread?

March 4th, 2003, 09:15 AM	#13
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	A Sony engineer would say that there is some difference but that the cameras can handle it or there would be some mechanism that would insure that the tape would not fit in the camera. To repeat: It is a digital signal. As long as the camera and VTRs can detect a one and a zero there is no functional difference between tapes unless you are using a linear editing system. Purchasing DVCam tapes for a NLE environment unless you are sending your raw footage to a studio that cares is a waste of money. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

March 4th, 2003, 09:24 AM	#14
Rick Spilman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Jersey City, NJ Posts: 366	Let's turn the question around. Is there any PD150 owner here who uses DVCAM tapes? Just curious.

March 4th, 2003, 02:36 PM	#15
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	If you mean as a normal mode, I do not. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!