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Sony XAVC PMW-F5 / F55 CineAlta
35mm CMOS Sensor / 4K Ultra-HD Camcorders


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Old November 4th, 2012, 07:55 AM   #121
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Re: The New F

Thanks Nate,

That is great news and a price that helps keep the camera kit in the ball park.
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Old November 4th, 2012, 12:02 PM   #122
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Re: The New F

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Originally Posted by Mike Marriage View Post
The Cynic in me wonders whether the new interface is to stop it poaching sales from Sony's existing high end EVFs!
Red did the same thing going back to the R1. Over the years, their own EVF scheme has been described by various Red employees on Red User as being an interface based on DVI, but at custom resolutions and custom pinouts.

Red said it was because they wanted to keep the processing hardware in the camera body, and make the EVFs/LCD monitors more simple and cheaper. However, it was the basis of some frustration, because in the early days, the EVF and the 5" LCD monitor were slightly different resolutions, and the camera didn't have the processing power to feed two slightly different resolutions to two devices and then 720p SDI at the same time.

So anyway, Sony might be taking the same approach. They obviously have some monster number crunching inside that camera body, why not use some of that power for the viewing system's benefit? (less processing in EVF=cheaper EVF)
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Old November 4th, 2012, 10:29 PM   #123
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Re: The New F

In case fan-noise becomes a problem when the raw recorder is running full-out, I wonder if it will be possible to attach the RAW recorder to the camera body via some sort of cable? (so you can hide it around the corner or something if it's an issue for sound).
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Old November 4th, 2012, 10:52 PM   #124
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Re: The New F

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Originally Posted by Mark Kenfield View Post
In case fan-noise becomes a problem when the raw recorder is running full-out, I wonder if it will be possible to attach the RAW recorder to the camera body via some sort of cable? (so you can hide it around the corner or something if it's an issue for sound).
I think an issue at those data rates is signal integrity. I know the link between the F65 and R4 recorders is optical, as is the link between the Alexa M and it's processing body.

In other words, it can be done, but not easily over copper, so it would probably cost.
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Old November 4th, 2012, 10:55 PM   #125
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Re: The New F

Do the new cameras have 2 SDI outputs like the F3?
HDMI is not very attractive for monitoring , EVF, 3rd party recorders or really anything at all.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 05:16 AM   #126
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Re: The New F

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Originally Posted by Leonard Levy View Post
Do the new cameras have 2 SDI outputs like the F3?
HDMI is not very attractive for monitoring , EVF, 3rd party recorders or really anything at all.
Reports are they have 4 sdi outputs on 2 video busses. One pair for monitoring and one pair for external recording.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 11:20 AM   #127
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Re: The New F

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Reports are they have 4 sdi outputs on 2 video busses. One pair for monitoring and one pair for external recording.
The F55 has 4...after seeing this question last night I went looking for a pic of the right side of an F5, and I couldn't find one. The 4 on the 55 are needed for 4K monitoring.

So 55 has plenty, the 5?, not sure.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 11:28 AM   #128
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Re: The New F

Yes the UK video on the F55 I believe shows 4 3-G-SDI ports but I have not seen any info on the F5.

Anyone have any new insight on pricing for the two? (purely speculative of course)
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Old November 5th, 2012, 12:27 PM   #129
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Re: The New F

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Originally Posted by Nate Weaver View Post
The F55 has 4...after seeing this question last night I went looking for a pic of the right side of an F5, and I couldn't find one. The 4 on the 55 are needed for 4K monitoring.

So 55 has plenty, the 5?, not sure.


Here is what I see on the F5 page on Sony's site (Sony | Showcase)

This isn't a guarantee but to me it looks like you get the same connectors on both cameras.

-----------------------------------

The connections you need

The camera offers vital connections, including four HD-SDI jacks, HDMI®, USB, DC IN connection, a removable XLR audio module and a removable time code/genlock module. The XLR inputs accept balanced analog signals, provide 48-Volt phantom power and will accept four channels of AES/EBU digital audio with an expected firmware upgrade.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 04:03 PM   #130
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Re: The New F

The connections you need
The camera offers vital connections, including four HD-SDI jacks, HDMI®, USB, DC IN connection, a removable XLR audio module and a removable time code/genlock module. The XLR inputs accept balanced analog signals, provide 48-Volt phantom power and will accept four channels of AES/EBU digital audio with an expected firmware upgrade.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 07:54 PM   #131
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Re: The New F

I think a big (and very interesting) thing that perhaps a few people are missing - where these cameras are concerned - is that the F55 (on specs at least) brings us (for the first time) to S35mm-film parity (or better) in all aspects at a (potentially) broadly affordable price-point.

It gives us:

- a S35mm image format
- equivalent resolution to S35mm film
- equivalent dynamic range to S35mm film
- equivalent motion characteristics thanks to a global shutter exposure (just as we had with mechanical shutters on film cameras)
- a wider colour gamut than S35mm film
- a vastly higher sensitivity than S35mm film (for low-light shooting, and lighter/cheaper lens options)
- faster frame rates than we had with workhorse film cameras like the Arriflex 435
- a broader range of shooting formats to cater to a broader range of budgets (standard video codecs for lower budget productions, and 16-bit raw for high-end projects)
- a lighter weight and smaller form factor than even the smallest S35mm film cameras (allowing for smaller support gear, and a broader range of rigging possibilites)

Given that point of parity in all aspects, how much more is anyone going to need from a camera? Will cameras continue to get even better and out-spec the F55? Of course they will. But will there be any dire need to upgrade beyond a level of image quality and a feature-set that good? Not for long time. Not for a seriously long time (by digital standards at least).

Cinemas have only recently made the switch to digital en masse, and mostly to 2K projection (though 4K is slowly increasing). Having made that substantial investment in infrastructure, cinemas won't be upgrading further (to 8K projectors for example), for a long, long time. Which means a camera like the F55 is going to be relevant for a long time, much longer than the 1st and 2nd generation large-sensor digital cinema cameras before it.

Just as people have largely slowed their upgrading of DSLRs once the image quality and feature-sets reached a certain level of quality, we're now going to see a similar thing happen with these 3rd-Generation digital cinema cameras (can we give that an acronym? 'DCC' or something?). I'm going to go right out and call the F55 the first '3rd Generation' DCC. We've reached a new and fascinating point of camera development with its arrival. And the market is going to shift considerably from where it was before because of it.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 08:46 PM   #132
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Re: The New F

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard Levy View Post
Do the new cameras have 2 SDI outputs like the F3?
HDMI is not very attractive for monitoring , EVF, 3rd party recorders or really anything at all.
Both cameras have four SDI outputs. The F5 can output HD or 2K over these ports. The F55 can output 4K over all these ports together.

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Old November 9th, 2012, 09:34 PM   #133
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Re: The New F

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Originally Posted by Mike Marriage View Post
Nate is right. It is actually the same connector as on the PMW500/350/320 but uses a new digital interface. I tried to plug in an EVF from a 350 and the Sony guy from Japan told me not to because it wouldn't work.

I wondered whether the 3.5" EVF was the same panel as the 320/350 kit EVF but it actually appeared sharper when I tried it. Can't wait to see the OLED EVF, should be great. The Cynic in me wonders whether the new interface is to stop it poaching sales from Sony's existing high end EVFs!
The new EVF is 960x540, higher resolution and 10 times the contrast of previous LCD models. Even the C30WR, which you'll find on the F65. This and the new OLED EVF should be very impressive.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 03:20 AM   #134
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Re: The New F

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Originally Posted by Andy Shipsides View Post
The new EVF is 960x540, higher resolution and 10 times the contrast of previous LCD models. Even the C30WR, which you'll find on the F65. This and the new OLED EVF should be very impressive.
Andy, does the 350 kinda fold out and unhinge itself so you can use it without the eyepiece?

I see the hinges on the mirror box, but I can't see if the bracketry lets it flip out 90º for direct viewing?

Also, I'm starting to guess the 350 is going to be the cheaper one and the 100 OLED is going to be the step up. Yes? No? Can't say?
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Old November 10th, 2012, 03:52 AM   #135
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Re: The New F

Interesting. 960x540, half HD, the same as the Alphatron and Cineroid EVF's that use the same or similar panels to the retina iPhone.

The 350 mirror box opens either fully for direct viewing face on or the loupe tilts up for direct viewing from behind the camera via the mirror.
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