basic questions on the EX

[Simon Wyndham]

The sensors are progressive and capture a progressive image

On the current XDCAM HD models the CCD's are interlaced.

[Todd Giglio]

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

Well, actually it was Greg himself who stated a couple of posts ago the XDCAM HD uses segmented frames, Todd:)

And BTW: I have no problems editing the 25PsF from my V1E using Vegas; it recognizes it correctly as progressive even though it's burried within the 1080i stream. My problems start when I play back my clips with anything other than a software MPEG2 player that has the option of switching deinterlacing off - there's been a long and detailed thread on this in the V1 forum, you can search for it and see why.

You're fortunate that your using Vegas (I'm on FCP and as of now there isn't a way to remove the pulldown other than use Cinema Tools). Simon just stated that the current XDCAM's CCD's are interlaced... now I'm confused a bit too.

Piotr, forgive my 'guestimates' about the way the XDCAM EX produces it's 24p images. Hopefully the workflow will be as simple as placing the clips in a 23.98 sequence and the clips will be 'true' 24p (in NTCS land anyway).

Todd :)

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Simon Wyndham

On the current XDCAM HD models the CCD's are interlaced.

Now, this is interesting! Does it mean some in-camera deinterlacing is involved in getting the progressive footage?

It'd be ironic, I dare say: the V1 with progressive chips only being able to record segmented frames within the interlaced stream, and the XDCAM EX with interlaced chips producing native 24p!

[John Bosco Jr.]

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

Now, this is interesting! Does it mean some in-camera deinterlacing is involved in getting the progressive footage?

It'd be ironic, I dare say: the V1 with progressive chips only being able to record segmented frames within the interlaced stream, and the XDCAM EX with interlaced chips producing native 24p!

XDCam uses 3:2 pulldown to retrieve 24p from the camera and disks as, like the V1 and most 1080 cameras, it wraps the progressive 24p image in the 60i stream. The only difference is that the camera has interlace chips instead of progressive like the V1. No idea if the EX will be natively progressive or interlace. XDCam achieves a true 24p image without resolution loss from its interlace chips. I don't know how, but somehow Sony has a way to do it. There are XDCam decks that will enable capture of 24p without pulldown but not from the cameras themselves. Also, if you capture through HD-SDI, I believe you can digitize 24p without having to use 3:2 pulldown. There is an NLE advantage with XDCam over the V1, though. XDCam is mostly supported; The V1 is mostly not. I went to an XDCam seminar, and they were capturing 24p into FCP with no problems.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Thanks John for this explanation! Since you're saying this based on a Sony's seminar, and it is confirming what our guru Simon has just stated - I understand it's been established beyond any doubt the EX's chips are going to be interlaced.

As I said: very unexpected indeed. Perhaps Sony has licensed the Canon's 'F' mode encoding:-))

[Bob Grant]

I have no clue as to how the EX will derive 25p or if it's sensors will be interlaced or progressive. However how it records 25p is as irrelevant to the EX as it is to the V1P. 25p and 25PsF can and do record exactly the same thing, as pointed out many NLEs cannot handle 25p anyway nor can the majority of display devices. So even if the EX was to record 25p and it had say HD component outputs it would almost certainly still output 25PsF to them for the benefit of the display device.
As far as we can tell though the EX will not have HD component outputs so it might be a quite academic argument on that front. It will have HD SDI though and again, as far as I know you cannot feed 25p down HD SDI, it has to be 25PsF or 50i.

[Todd Giglio]

Shows you what I knew ;).

I do wish the EX had HD component outs, but I guess when Sony makes it's official announcements we'll know.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

Forgive me the naivity of my questions, but here they go:

1. The EX is advertised as 'native 24p' capable; does this mean it writes full frames rather than segmented frames (fields), like the V1?

OK, so now we know:

- in HQ (1920x1080p), it's frame based (native) 24p!
- in SP (1440x1080i), it's the ususal 24psf within 1080/60i stream and pulldown, just like the old good HDV.

Does it also apply to 25p (in HQ) vs 25psf (in SP)? I'd think so!

[Bob Grant]

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

OK, so now we know:

- in HQ (1920x1080p), it's frame based (native) 24p!
- in SP (1440x1080i), it's the ususal 24psf within 1080/60i stream and pulldown, just like the old good HDV.

Does it also apply to 25p (in HQ) vs 25psf (in SP)? I'd think so!

In 25p it's really unimportant if it records 25PsF or 25p. The cadence is such that pulldown removal is a piece of cake. Keeping in mind that nothing supports 25p anyway it's kind of a pointless issue. It's very nice to edit 25p on a 25p timeline but I've seen a few TVC shot on 35mm and edited on a 50i T/L.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Bob Grant

Keeping in mind that nothing supports 25p anyway it's kind of a pointless issue.

Sure thing Bob; if one has native 24p than 25p is a non-issue. Was just wondering if the same logic applies to both NTSC and PAL modes.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

After the brochure, and now the first impression reviews from Alister, Simon and Nigel - I'm almost sold on this little marvel.

The only 2 things that I'm still in doubts about are:
- will it work with the chepaer, non-Pro Express Card
- will it *somehow* make use of the lanc controllers I have, or something else but not very much more expensive.

Alister, Simon or Nigel;

May I ask you whether at 25Mbps, the HDV output of EX1's i.LINK will be compatible with the HVR-DR60 drive? The reason I'm asking is because I'd like to make my upgrade path from the V1/DR60 combo to the PMW-EX1 as cheap as possible, and using the EX1 with the two 8GB cards supplied AND/OR with the DR60 would let me wait till the 16 or 32 GB Express Cards price drop. TIA!

[Guy Barwood]

The 1394 out of the EX1 appears to be HDV only, not even DV.

PS: You only get one 8GB SxS card with the camera, not two.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Guy Barwood

The 1394 out of the EX1 appears to be HDV only, not even DV.

PS: You only get one 8GB SxS card with the camera, not two.

And HDV is exactly what I need to write on my DR60.
From the European announcement, the Euro 6500 price is for the EX1 with 2 x 8 GB SxS card, Guy.

[Guy Barwood]

OK, the Sony product brochure for the EX has the "Supplied Accessories" as one card only. 2 cards is probably a bundle for the UK only.

I had to laugh, on Sony's web site they had a 0% leasing option with an EX1 in the add. The problem is the promo is only valid for purchases made up till the end of this month. I'd like to see anyone use that option with an EX1 ;-)

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Guy Barwood

OK, the Sony product brochure for the EX has the "Supplied Accessories" as one card only. 2 cards is probably a bundle for the UK only.

I had to laugh, on Sony's web site they had a 0% leasing option with an EX1 in the add. The problem is the promo is only valid for purchases made up till the end of this month. I'd like to see anyone use that option with an EX1 ;-)

Not just UK, also Germany - so I think all EU, really:

http://www.film-tv-video.de/newsdeta...5Byear%5D=2007

"Der erste Festspeicher-Camcorder von Sony heißt PMW-EX1 HD. Der Camcorder soll als erstes Gerät der neuen XDCAM-EX-Produktfamilie ab November verfügbar sein und inklusive zweier 8-GB-Karten 6.500 Euro kosten."