Archiving XD Cam EX Footage

[Kevin Crockett]

Just wondering if you guys/gals plan on archiving your raw footage as well as your completed work?

[Mike Williams]

I think I will keep what I think is "worth it" and trash the rest. I thought about that recently as I usually send my clients the raw footage on Mini Dv tapes. I may give the option to put the raw footage on a separate DVD or optical disk "a la mode"

In the last few days I picked up a corpotate client that wants me to shoot in 4:3 SD !!! :( bla. then give them tapes for someone else to edit.

I guess if I was in EX land I would need to shoot and then give them a disk or drive for their house to finish. I really do hate tape but it is still nice and cheap for archiving and handing over.

MRW

[Robert Schemitsch]

I think best way to archive your EX - footage will be a XDCAM - Disc. The file system will be the same, so if you make a 1:1 copy from EX to disk you can play back this disc in any XDCAM-Deck.
Sony offers a XDCAM-USB Deck for less than $2000. This Deck has only a USB plug and no other I/O connections. Its for files only and supports 50GB-discs.
On the disc you also have a folder for any file-types you like. So you can put your projectfiles, images, music also on this disc. If you use the same file an folder hirachy on your NLE, you have your whole project saved 1:1 on a disc in your archive. You can change any title or grafic years after you finished this project. (when you use the same NLE - software ;))

greetings,
robert

[Mike Williams]

That actually sounds really good. Are they re-writable? Tape or RW disks for the same price of the deck... hmmm

I'm glad I didn't invest in the HDV decks. It is a little bit of a PIA to go back to cam after having two nice panny (dv2000) decks but I just couldn't make myself do it.

It helps to have someone just lay out a solution. The disks are how much more or less?

MRW

[Greg Boston]

Originally Posted by Mike Williams

That actually sounds really good. Are they re-writable? Tape or RW disks for the same price of the deck... hmmm
<snip>
The disks are how much more or less?

The discs are re-writable up to and beyond 10000 times. They cost around $25-30 each for the single layer discs which are 23.5 gb. This is what the current XDCAM units use for recording media. Unlike a DVD, they are enclosed in a protective shell.

-gb-

[Vaughan Wood]

In other words they'll only hold 1 x 16 gig card per disc?

(Aren't 32 gig cards supposed to be available by the end of the year?)

Cheers Vaughan

[Greg Boston]

Originally Posted by Vaughan Wood

In other words they'll only hold 1 x 16 gig card per disc?

(Aren't 32 gig cards supposed to be available by the end of the year?)

Cheers Vaughan

That would be true for the single layer discs. They now have the dual layer 50gb discs and the soon to be released stand alone drive (PDW-U1) will support dual layer discs. At initial launch, it will be a read-only drive for ingest and will have a later firmware update to be a writable drive unit.

-gb-

[Thomas Smet]

Originally Posted by Vaughan Wood

In other words they'll only hold 1 x 16 gig card per disc?

(Aren't 32 gig cards supposed to be available by the end of the year?)

Cheers Vaughan

Or 3 x 8GB cards which make an almost perfect fit for the 25GB disc. You could even do 1 x 16GB card and 1 x 8GB card.

If you only use the 16GB cards then the second card I would just make sure to swap out before it was half full. That way you will know you are getting the most out of each disc.

[Thomas Smet]

Originally Posted by Greg Boston

That would be true for the single layer discs. They now have the dual layer 50gb discs and the soon to be released stand alone drive (PDW-U1) will support dual layer discs. At initial launch, it will be a read-only drive for ingest and will have a later firmware update to be a writable drive unit.

-gb-

I can only imagine how much the 50GB discs will cost. It may be much cheaper to use multiple 25GB discs. If the price will be anything like that of single layer DVD vs. dual layer DVD then I'm sure the price will be very high.

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Thomas Smet

...I'm sure the price will be very high.

Even so, the cost per minute of recording time will still fall well below that of HDCAM tape.

[Kevin Shaw]

As I noted in another discussion, the cost of hard drives has dropped to a point where you could store an hour of XDCAM HD footage for about $3, or $6 per hour with a redundant copy on a separate drive for security. Plus a single 500GB drive would hold about 30 hours of footage without taking up much physical space compared to a stack of XDCAM HD discs or even a stack of Blu-ray discs. Time required to archive to a hard drive is minimal and you can retrieve the footage directly for editing later. And instead of spending big bucks on a deck, spend that same money on another editing workstation, or a nice vacation...

[Tyson Persall]

Hard drives are the only viable option. For the cost of that XDCAM deck alone i could have shelf with 35 or more 250g hard drives.

The cheapest method of storage as of right now is buying OEM Hard drives and backing up your HD footage to them - then storing on a shelf. This is what i do with my HDV projects right now. You can get a USB to SATA ii cable - $30 - and just hot swap them out when you need something.

250g OEM drives can be had for $50 bucks. 500g for $110 or less.

This price beats Blu Ray disk at 25g for $15 and 50g for $30. Think - would you rather spend 30 bucks on 50gigs or 50 bucks on 250gigs. Blu Ray disk sounds like its the same cost per disk as XDCAM disks.

I dont see any reason to buy a XDCAM disk recorder for 2 grand if you dont have a camera that uses it - and then you have the cost of all the disks...

[Greg Boston]

It's all what your individual comfort level is. I won't archive to hard drive because they spin at high speed and have low torque motors. If they sit on a shelf long enough and the motor encounters any resistance down the road, it might not spin up. You also have to rely on the electronics not to fail you (I'll admit that's pretty rare) vs. a disc in an enclosed cartridge.

The other purpose for the deck is to allow post houses and other facilities to readily accept XDCAM material without the expense of a true editing deck. For those folks, 2 or 3 grand is peanuts compared to what they've been having to shell out for DVCPRO HD or HDCAM decks. That's the beauty of file based media.

I suspect at the price point of the XDCAM EX, a lot of folks will consider hard drive back up to be acceptable. And who knows what other technology might come along in a decade. Heck, flash media may become the standard for archival.

-gb-

[Kevin Shaw]

Originally Posted by Greg Boston

I won't archive to hard drive because they spin at high speed and have low torque motors. If they sit on a shelf long enough and the motor encounters any resistance down the road, it might not spin up. You also have to rely on the electronics not to fail you...

Any single archiving solution can't be considered infallible, so if you want security then duplicate backups are essential...and two hard drives are about as good as anything else. The odds of two drives both failing while sitting on a shelf are pretty slim.

[Alister Chapman]

That depends Kevin. If a drive has an inherent design flaw, say a grease that dries out out or component that absorbs moisture or breaks down over time it is likely that both drives would fail at a similar point in time. If they sit on a shelf for a year or two before being used you could very well find them both dead. Electronics like to be used, especially capacitors.
Much of this applies to tapes as well which can deteriorate quite quickly if not stored correctly, as for XDCAM disks, my guess is they will last very well and for that reason I have started to back up all my older valuable DV and HDV footage to XDCAM.