PDW EX1 brochure discussion - Page 5 at DVinfo.net
DV Info Net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PXW-Z280, Z190, X180 etc. (going back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 6th, 2007, 03:43 PM   #61
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 4,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Williams View Post
Just read most of it starting with the specs... printed first :)

.14 Lux? even at 18db that is swwweeeett. Am I nuts or is this really good low light capability?

Mike
I'm afraid Sony has adopted another way of rating low light performance. It's similar to Canon's A1: "0.4 lx (60i/30F mode, Manual mode, 1/4 shutter, F1.6, Gain 18 dB)". 0.4 lux sounds great, and yet the actual sensitivity turned out to be not much better than the V1's with its 4 lux rating!

The EX with its .14lux will certainly be better because of the larger sensors, but what it really means compared to 1lux of PD170, or 4 lux of the V1, or 3 lux of the Z1 - well, we have yet to see...
__________________
Sony PXW-FS7 | DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive
Piotr Wozniacki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2007, 03:53 PM   #62
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 3,015
my most crucial question is, will the hi-def broadcasters certify its usage? that seems to be the real acid test of cameras in this price range, in terms of maximum flexibility and maximizing the ability to deliver the product. does anyone in the know have any info on whether XDCAM EX will receive the same respect as its big brothers?
Meryem Ersoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2007, 04:05 PM   #63
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK
Posts: 4,957
Certainly more sensitive than my Z1. Possibly a little more sensitive than my F350 according to the side by side test I did.
__________________
Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com
Alister Chapman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2007, 04:14 PM   #64
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 423
Sensitivity is F10 at 2000 lx.

To put this in perspective:

JVC HD100/200/250 1/3" HD (720p) F8 @ 2000 Lux
Sony XDCAM HD 330 1/2" HD Camera F9 @ 2000 Lux
Sony XDCAM HD 350 1/2" HD Camera F9 @ 2000 Lux
Sony HDW-750P HDCAM 2/3" HD Camera F10 @ 2000 Lux
JVC DV500 1/2" SD Camera F11 @ 2000 Lux
Sony DSR450 2/3" SD Camera F11 @ 2000 Lux
JVC DV5100 1/2" SD Camera F13 @ 2000 Lux

For those not aware, the larger the F stop rating at 2000lux the more sensitive a camera is. Sony have never published these ratings on cameras such as the Z1, but taking it is very similar in sensitivity to the JVC HD100 it puts it a Z1 at around F8 @ 2000 lux.

One F stop represent double or half the amount of light. F stop numbers are not linear though, we have

f/1, f/1.4, f/2, f/2.8, f/4, f/5.6, f/8, f/11, f/16, f/22, f/32, f/45, f/64, f/90, f/128

So taking f/8 and f/11 as a single full stop difference, the EX1 is about 2/3 of a stop more sensitive than a Z1.
Guy Barwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2007, 04:16 PM   #65
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 4,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
3. It seems like the firewire output only works with the 25Mbps stream, right? But this would mean the camera should be compatible with the DR60 disk, otherwise how could it easily "mix" with HDV? I mean it'd be nice to extend the recording times by using the cards for HQ only and use the DR60 for SP...Or record SP to both for that extra protection from failure. But will DR60 write MP4s, or M2ts? Or is the i.LINK outpt (which is marked HDV on the cam) actually outputting m2t? What with uncompressed audio? And finally, will it allow to record to the DR60 only (e.g. with cards full, or absent)?
Alister, can you comment on the possibility of recording the 25Mbps stream from the 'HDV' i.LINK output to the DR60 drive?
__________________
Sony PXW-FS7 | DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive
Piotr Wozniacki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2007, 04:59 PM   #66
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Aus
Posts: 3,884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Evans View Post
I hope we will see some variants of the EX. Obvious options are no SDI, then restrictions to 25Mbs with 19VBR as the second speed for long recording. This latter one would be a good transition from the HDV line and one I would be interested in as "addicted amateur" to go with my FX1!!!!

Ron Evans
Without variable bitrates, it would defeat the purpose of XDCAM in general. Sorry to say, but one of the formats redeeming factors in regard to long gop managements is the larger than 25mbps bitrate. Yes the encoder is SLIGHTLY different to HDV, but the larger bitrate also plays a major element in the way this camera can compete with more "professional" formats.

Having the options available is what make the format so robust, as you can switch bitrates based on your needs. Doing a no frills interview, use 19mbps, shooting boats on water use 35mbps.

Price is relative more so to hardware than anything else, so I really see no benefit in "dumbing" the camera down to HDV standard.
Peter Jefferson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2007, 04:59 PM   #67
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: USVI
Posts: 232
Thanks Guy

I appreciate breaking that down. This is very good news as it was a big factor for me. I hope the lower s/n ratio and this will mean really clean gain at 18db too.
Mike Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2007, 05:11 PM   #68
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 173
Maybe I missed this in my reading, but does anyone know if the camera can down-convert to SD via Firewire out?
__________________
Justin
http://www.carlsonmedia.ca
Justin Carlson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2007, 06:20 PM   #69
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 423
I think only via 1394 out, which means for pure SD work, you are going to have to shoot HD, and capture via 1394 or render in post back to SD.

This seems to be so lame, how much is a DV encoder to add? Certainly the 330 etc can record native SD to XDCAM optical disk and just copy the files across.
Guy Barwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2007, 06:41 PM   #70
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 418
Wow, sony really have pulled something out of the bag here, this camera is going to be great!

The one thing that is missing is dv.. which is a shame i guess, but downconvertings so easy now, especially if you're running fcp with a kona card, down converting on the fly is so quick.

Hmmm, cant wait to see more pictures, the chip are sounding amazing, and i dont think anyones going to miss the LP mode. Sony really have listened to people and thought about this camera, well done.

Loving that it comes with an 8gb card when you buy it.

Now if the images look as good as the hvx i might be able to get over that 420 colour sampling and buy this instead of an hvx.. we'll see.
Joe Lawry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2007, 06:42 PM   #71
New Boot
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zagreb Croatia
Posts: 5
Have a read at this article. http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=171
It appears to be only HD. A lot of questions will be answered here.
Javor Divjak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2007, 07:30 PM   #72
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Centreville, Maryland
Posts: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javor Divjak View Post
Have a read at this article. http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=171
Interesting. This reviewer says the low light is NOT as good as the Panasonic:

"Using Panasonic's method of SD chips and pixel shifting means you have superior low-light performance [compared to ex1] by anything between 1/2 stop and 1.5 stops."

Granted, he did review a preproduction model.
__________________
http://twitter.com/tedmcneil
Theodore McNeil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2007, 09:03 PM   #73
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 423
Well it would be a tall tall ask for a 1920x1080 sensor to beat the sensitivity of a SD resolution sensor of only a few years old technolog.

I don't doubt that while the sensitivity of the EX1 will be less than the Panasonic (but still better than the likes of a Z1), the resolution of the image will be far superiour. Then, with this higher true resolution, 4:2:0 vs 4:2:2 sampling will be less significant. ie for each pixel the HVX samples, the EX1 will sub sample twice.
Guy Barwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2007, 09:13 PM   #74
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Centreville, Maryland
Posts: 258
And this is just one review, so no need to throw up our hands just yet.
__________________
http://twitter.com/tedmcneil
Theodore McNeil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2007, 09:52 PM   #75
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 2,488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodore McNeil View Post
Using Panasonic's method of SD chips and pixel shifting means you have superior low-light performance [compared to ex1] by anything between 1/2 stop and 1.5 stops.
But that was comparing to the Panasonic HPX500 which costs several times as much and has even larger sensors; what's more relevant is how the EX1 will compare to other <$10K HD cameras. It would be reasonable to guess that the low-light ability will be at least similar to that of HD cameras with 1/3" chips containing fewer pixels, and it sounds like the latitude may be better. We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out once production units are shipping.
Kevin Shaw is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY USA

Scan Computers Int. Ltd.
+44 0871-472-4747
Bolton, Lancashire UK


DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:02 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2024 The Digital Video Information Network