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Old November 4th, 2007, 03:32 PM   #1
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2K film transfer

I'm looking for advice. If I shoot full 1920 x 1080 image, can I get a 2K film resolution into data to film transfer?
I understand 2K demand 2048x1556 resolution, so, this could be a very close option, but it will works?
Thanks in advance for your ideas.
Octavio Gasca
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Old November 4th, 2007, 04:11 PM   #2
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I'm thinking that you could use Cineform Prospect 2K for this workflow but
you might ask the folks at Cineform to confirm.....
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Old November 4th, 2007, 04:57 PM   #3
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It will certainly work regardless of whether you have the full resolution of 2K or not, there have been many features shot on HDCAM or HDCAM SR and filmed out at this resolution. I have one in the pipeline myself.

Also there are films that originated on 35mm and given a HDCAM SR DI, then filmed out again, which also dips the nominal resolution.

I wouldn't fret the difference between 1080 and 2K.
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Old November 4th, 2007, 05:52 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octavio Gasca View Post
I'm looking for advice. If I shoot full 1920 x 1080 image, can I get a 2K film resolution into data to film transfer?
I understand 2K demand 2048x1556 resolution, so, this could be a very close option, but it will works?
Thanks in advance for your ideas.
Octavio Gasca
I am not sure I understand the question at all. It seems to me that you are looking at using the EX1 for an eventual filmout, and you want to know if it will work.

Well, if I am right about what you want, then let me assure you the camera's native resolution is not relevant.

You've probably seen DV footage coming at you through a film out. (28 Days Later was done this way on an XL-1.) If DV cameras can survive the transfer 1080p will be just fine once upscaled to 2K resolutions.

A lot of features are being acquired this way. (Star Wars episodes 2&3)

Cineform is close to useless as an output format for this application. Most labs that do video film outs require .dpx or Cineon files. The ones that will accept other formats charge you for converting your files to .dpx or Cineon. Most places I've looked at won't accept Cineform files.

http://www.efilm.com/publish/2006/03...policy_v10.pdf

Whether or not 1080p will be satisfactory for you depends on how you handle your image throughout the project. There is a lot to be said about this, but this isn't the forum. Here is one document to get you started in your thinking:

http://www.efilm.com/publish/2006/12...Hintsclean.pdf

If your project isn't effects heavy then just post 1080p "normally."

At the end of post, go to the colorist for a full DI treatment. The colorist can file out .dpx or Cineon files in the resolution you need. You'll get better results letting them scale it for you once everything is done.

If your show is effects heavy then I suggest having the colorist do a primary grade early in the post process and outputting 2K frames for all effects plates. This way the 3D folk and compositors can do their work at 2K.

(This corresponds roughly with 1st lights in the film workflow.)

Before you even start the project consult with folks at your film out lab and let them advise you. They'll have specific information like whether or not you should use printer light settings in the grade and what they should be set at.
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Old November 4th, 2007, 08:39 PM   #5
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I just got the BD of 28 Days Later - looks ghastly, would love to see it in a theatre now to compare.

Hey Alexander, thanks for that post, really helpful, although it reminded me that I know diddly-squat about this stuff :(
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Old November 4th, 2007, 11:29 PM   #6
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Thanks for your advices, specially to Alexander for take the time to give a clear steps process to get better results. and yes, my question was with the EX in mind looking to shoot a feature film.
And talking about the colorist work, would you give me a recommendation for a indy-low budget film project?
Regards!
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Old November 4th, 2007, 11:56 PM   #7
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Another thing to remember is that 2048x1556 is a 4x3 pixel ratio and not 16x9. In terms of 16x9 we are now only talking 2048x1152 pixels of needed image data. That isn't that much more then 1920x1080.

If you want to go for the 2:39 look then it is only 2048x858 pixels in which case you will end up cropping some of the top and/or bottom.
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Old November 4th, 2007, 11:59 PM   #8
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Presumably you wouldn't have to worry about the filmout until you can sell the film for theatrical distribution, and the cost of that would be built into the sale...?
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Old November 5th, 2007, 04:37 AM   #9
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Presumably you wouldn't have to worry about the filmout until you can sell the film for theatrical distribution, and the cost of that would be built into the sale...?
Yes and no.

Technically you shouldn't be concerned with actually doing the film out until after the sale, exactly like Mr. Papert suggests.

The cost should definitely be built into the sale exactly as suggested.

My advice is that you get on the phone with a couple of labs, your DP and your colorist and talk about film out in pre-production. What's it gonna cost, what do you have to worry about etc.

There isn't anything you are "supposed" to do differently. Proper exposure is still proper exposure and so on. There may be some technical details the lab will suggest that might modify how the DP lights or exposes, but these are details.

The sad truth is that if the project is headed direct to DVD from day one corners get cut- corners that might really hurt your image at film out and eventually at screenings. If everyone is on "the film out page" early then they know not to cut those corners.

One example right at the top of eFilm's list is using a waveform monitor on set to assist in setting exposure. If the project is going to DVD for an industrial it isn't worth the effort or expense of hiring the monitor.

That is also one of those exposure details thats different for a lot of video projects. On video, I would likely keep my signal levels between 10 and 95 IRE. The EX1 can see between 0 and 107 IRE. That's 27 IRE of exposure range I'm giving up, but the footage will come out of the camera close to broadcast spec. That's important when you have to hand over footage at the end of the shoot. Also I can move from shot to shot faster. Also, if I set these as my goals then when I get a bit sloppy, I'm still within spec.

Throwing away 25% of your exposure range just to "play it safe" and "make life easy" is one of those corners you want no one cutting at any time on a project intended for film out. If I am going to film, then I will work a bit harder to make sure I am using as much of my cameras exposure range for data gathering as practical.

There are also issues like retaining the grade. Your colorist might throw out the grade data if you wait until after a sale to ask for a 2K output for film out. Then you'd be stuck paying for a new grade and such. Worse if you don't find out the grade data is gone until after a deal is inked... because now you have to pay for the new grade out of pocket.

In my mind its easier and safer to get the colorist to do the output right after the film is graded. Then you are golden. When film out is on the table, you have a disk, or four, full of .dpx files ready to deliver.

And that's why I suggest worrying about film out early in the process.
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Old November 5th, 2007, 10:14 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Paul Ramsbottom View Post
I just got the BD of 28 Days Later - looks ghastly, would love to see it in a theatre now to compare.
It looked ghastly in the theater, too...
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Old November 5th, 2007, 02:22 PM   #11
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It looked ghastly in the theater, too...
Well, you have to admit it works well for this particular picture. ::grin::
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Old November 5th, 2007, 05:05 PM   #12
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Well, you have to admit it works well for this particular picture. ::grin::
LOL
Well Put!
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