New software released

Steve Mullen · November 9th, 2007, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malcolm Hamilton

Thanks Steve... I didn't know that. Now I'm back to wondering how long it'll be before Xpress Pro catches up to the EX1.

On the Avid list, someone claimed EX is "already supported" on the Avid because "its XDCAM HD." I'm not so sure.

I'm also wondering about 1080p24 support. Both FCP and Avid do NOT remove 2-3 pulldown on long-GOP HD video.

I need to spend the weekend trying to catch up. Right now I'm downloading some EX files.

Steve Mullen · November 9th, 2007, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alain Chaix

Someone kept footages made by the EX1 in a exhibit in Paris.
Here is the link where you can download mp4 files.
http://www.vecomvideo.com/pages/test_ex1.htm

The Mac ex browser does not see these files.

Craig Seeman · November 9th, 2007, 09:07 AM

It worked for me. Open Clip Browser and use File/Import/
Then use "..." and select the clip. Then use Add. Repeat for all three clips. Select OK.

For an additional treat use Viewer/View Full Screen.

Keep in mind the Clip Browser only works on Intel Macs. Clip Browser will not open on a G5. You'll get a compatibility warning message.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

The Mac ex browser does not see these files.

Steve Mullen · November 9th, 2007, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

It worked for me. Open Clip Browser and use File/Import/
Then use "..." and select the clip. Then use Add. Repeat for all three clips. Select OK.

Thank you! It does work.

This sure is a non-intuitive way of finding clips given the Browser has a window already pointed at the Movies folder. Amazing it can't see the clips in the folder. Moreover, given the application was designed for this purpose, I would not think IMPORT is the right command. I would think OPEN.

And, finding and ADDing one at a time -- give me a break.

Also, I haven't found a way to rename the clips.

Interesting there is no notation of what the upper-left window does verses the lower window. Mac apps as simple as this should be obvious in their operation. As EZ as a Browse window, Player window, and an Export button.

Whoops, where is the Export function?

I guess I expected it would convert to a QT movie using the XDCAM HD codec. Just how is this supposed to move MP4 files into FCP?

PS 1: what's the blue arrow?

PS 2: Note the lack of HELP! I could written a better app in RealBasic that would be cross-platform and worked on any Mac. I hope Sony didn't pay much for this!

PS 3: For JVC's FullHD harddisk camcorder, JVC supplied a driver that lets its files show and play in the Finder and QT Player. This seems a much smarter way to INTEGRATE EX files into OS X. Why a Browser when we all have a QT Player?

Paul Joy · November 9th, 2007, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

I hope Sony didn't pay much for this!

I agree, if this is the app we have to use in order to watch clips then it's the first thing I've seen that makes me think twice about the workflow, it's badly designed and not at all intuitive. I too gave up with it until I saw that it's possible to import.

I also tried the XDCAM Transfer application (v1.1) on these mp4's and it doesn't recognize them either.

And what's with the strange rolling effect in the first two clips, could this be the result of somebody playing with the shutter angles?

Paul.

Craig Seeman · November 9th, 2007, 12:28 PM

All three clips show they were recorded in Slow and Quick Motion mode if you look at Properties. Two are 1920x1080 and one is 1280x720. All show as 25p.
Two show Feb creation dates and one shows Oct. Somebody messing with the internal clock?

David Parks · November 9th, 2007, 05:21 PM

25p; MPEG2HD35_1920_1080_MP@HL The first clip!!!

Avid Liquid: Tried importing the unconverted MP4 in. It looked like the app saw it as mp4 but on import it locked up on 3 tries. So, using the clip browser I rewrapped to MXF. So fast I thought that it screwed up. Then it imported very quicky. Was able to setup a 1080p/25 timeline and it dropped right with no problems. So, Liquid works fine after MXF rewrap and the import took less than 5 seconds.

Avid Xpress Pro: Tried importing the MXF clip into a 1080p/25 project. It saw the clip, and looked like it imported as DNXHD 120. But all I got was a green screen on playback.

I tried converting using MPEGstreamclip and versdion 1.1 would not recocgnize the mp4, So I downloaded the new beta Win version and it saw the mp4 but said it had no video or audio. So with Xpress/Media Composer, you would have to find a way to convert to a QT DNXHD.

I'll keep playing with a possible conversion routine. But, I can confirm Avid Liquid works great with MXF at the MPEG codec..

Steven Thomas · November 9th, 2007, 06:15 PM

Yes,
what is going on with the weird shutter effect in files 058B0102_01.mp4 & BBC20072_01.mp4 ? Very strange. Someone must of been playing with the settings?

I don't see it it the fast motion BBC20076_01.mp4 file.

Also, I agree with Steve Mullen. It took me a few minutes to figure out I had to use import and add each file one at a time - odd...
Also, why no transport controls when viewing full screen.

Other than that, this camera sure resolves a lot of detail!
Can't wait!

Craig Seeman · November 9th, 2007, 06:38 PM

While all three clips show as Slow and Quick motion in properties I wonder if there's some way to see other metadata. If we could see the shutter speed it might explain some of the odd things people are seeing.

When importing I get a folder called
BPAV
in that is another folcer called
CLPR
in that I get 3 more folders, each with an MP4 and XML file
also in BPAV is
cueup.xml
mediapro.xml
another folder called
TAKR
that folder doesn't have anything in it.

Steven Thomas · November 9th, 2007, 07:23 PM

The flicker sure looks like it may be the effect of the rolling shutter with the fluorescent lights used at the show. Could the shutter speed be adjusted to compensate for this issue?

The more I look at it, I'd say on reasonably confident this strobe effect is due to the fluorescent lights.
It may be due to older low-frequency-ballast fixtures. Newer fixtures have a faster response time.

This brings up a question.
How should the XDCAM EX1 hold up under concert lighting?
We plan on using ours for concert events?

Would there be a recommended frame rate / shutter setting to minimize these possible artifacts?

Craig Seeman · November 9th, 2007, 07:30 PM

It looks that way to me too (fluorescent lights issue). That's why I'm wondering what shutter speed was used.

EX1 has a "clear scan" feature some I'm wondering if there's some way to lock it in to the light's flicker even if one has to walk it in manually.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Thomas

The flicker sure looks like it may be the effect of the rolling shutter with the fluorescent lights used at the show. Could the shutter speed be adjusted to compensate for this issue?

The more I look at it, I'd say on reasonably confident this strobe effect is due to the fluorescent lights.
It may be due to older low-frequency-ballast fixtures. Newer fixtures have a faster response time.

Steven Thomas · November 9th, 2007, 07:47 PM

Thanks Craig.
The manual reads ECS (Extended Clear Scan) mode "Specify the shutter by frequency. This mode may be used to shoot the monitor screen eliminating horizontal bands."

I wish I knew more about this feature. Does it give the option to increment the shutter speed?

Evan Donn · November 9th, 2007, 10:22 PM

I'm sure the flickering is just the result of the fluorescent lights in that room - the thing that I'm wondering about is the banding in the motion blur. Look at clip 058B0102_01.MP4 and pause as the camera pans back to the right - you can clearly see three bands in the motion blur along the figures, looks like artificial motion blur with too few samples.

This shot does seem to have excessive motion blur relative to the speed, looks like it's using a slow shutter speed - could this be the result of using 'frame accumulation'? I saw that referenced in the EX1 literature and assumed it meant combining multiple frames in order to increase sensitivity, which might cause this effect. I don't see it in the other clips (watching these in VLC, by the way - only thing that I could get to open them on my G4 powerbook).

Simon Wyndham · November 10th, 2007, 04:50 AM

Quote:

I wish I knew more about this feature. Does it give the option to increment the shutter speed?

ECS is, like the decription says, for shooting things like computer monitors and TV's. In this mode you can adjust the frequency to match that of the screen you have in the background to eliminate flicker and light/dark banding.

Jan Boersma · November 11th, 2007, 04:24 PM

So are these so called artifacts ("banding"/"wobble") avoidable under
those lightings conditions or is it something we have to live with ?

November 9th, 2007, 05:21 PM	#37
David Parks Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 789	Avid test on MP@HL 25p; MPEG2HD35_1920_1080_MP@HL The first clip!!! Avid Liquid: Tried importing the unconverted MP4 in. It looked like the app saw it as mp4 but on import it locked up on 3 tries. So, using the clip browser I rewrapped to MXF. So fast I thought that it screwed up. Then it imported very quicky. Was able to setup a 1080p/25 timeline and it dropped right with no problems. So, Liquid works fine after MXF rewrap and the import took less than 5 seconds. Avid Xpress Pro: Tried importing the MXF clip into a 1080p/25 project. It saw the clip, and looked like it imported as DNXHD 120. But all I got was a green screen on playback. I tried converting using MPEGstreamclip and versdion 1.1 would not recocgnize the mp4, So I downloaded the new beta Win version and it saw the mp4 but said it had no video or audio. So with Xpress/Media Composer, you would have to find a way to convert to a QT DNXHD. I'll keep playing with a possible conversion routine. But, I can confirm Avid Liquid works great with MXF at the MPEG codec.. __________________ David Parks: DP/Editor: Jacobs Aerospace at NASA Johnson Space Center https://www.youtube.com/user/JacobsESCG

November 9th, 2007, 10:22 PM	#43
Evan Donn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 795	I'm sure the flickering is just the result of the fluorescent lights in that room - the thing that I'm wondering about is the banding in the motion blur. Look at clip 058B0102_01.MP4 and pause as the camera pans back to the right - you can clearly see three bands in the motion blur along the figures, looks like artificial motion blur with too few samples. This shot does seem to have excessive motion blur relative to the speed, looks like it's using a slow shutter speed - could this be the result of using 'frame accumulation'? I saw that referenced in the EX1 literature and assumed it meant combining multiple frames in order to increase sensitivity, which might cause this effect. I don't see it in the other clips (watching these in VLC, by the way - only thing that I could get to open them on my G4 powerbook). __________________ My latest short documentary: "Four Pauls: Bring the Hat Back!"

November 9th, 2007, 12:28 PM	#36
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	All three clips show they were recorded in Slow and Quick Motion mode if you look at Properties. Two are 1920x1080 and one is 1280x720. All show as 25p. Two show Feb creation dates and one shows Oct. Somebody messing with the internal clock?

November 9th, 2007, 06:15 PM	#38
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Yes, what is going on with the weird shutter effect in files 058B0102_01.mp4 & BBC20072_01.mp4 ? Very strange. Someone must of been playing with the settings? I don't see it it the fast motion BBC20076_01.mp4 file. Also, I agree with Steve Mullen. It took me a few minutes to figure out I had to use import and add each file one at a time - odd... Also, why no transport controls when viewing full screen. Other than that, this camera sure resolves a lot of detail! Can't wait!

November 9th, 2007, 06:38 PM	#39
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	While all three clips show as Slow and Quick motion in properties I wonder if there's some way to see other metadata. If we could see the shutter speed it might explain some of the odd things people are seeing. When importing I get a folder called BPAV in that is another folcer called CLPR in that I get 3 more folders, each with an MP4 and XML file also in BPAV is cueup.xml mediapro.xml another folder called TAKR that folder doesn't have anything in it.

November 9th, 2007, 07:23 PM	#40
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	The flicker sure looks like it may be the effect of the rolling shutter with the fluorescent lights used at the show. Could the shutter speed be adjusted to compensate for this issue? The more I look at it, I'd say on reasonably confident this strobe effect is due to the fluorescent lights. It may be due to older low-frequency-ballast fixtures. Newer fixtures have a faster response time. This brings up a question. How should the XDCAM EX1 hold up under concert lighting? We plan on using ours for concert events? Would there be a recommended frame rate / shutter setting to minimize these possible artifacts?

November 9th, 2007, 07:47 PM	#42
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Thanks Craig. The manual reads ECS (Extended Clear Scan) mode "Specify the shutter by frequency. This mode may be used to shoot the monitor screen eliminating horizontal bands." I wish I knew more about this feature. Does it give the option to increment the shutter speed?

November 11th, 2007, 04:24 PM	#45
Jan Boersma New Boot Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 17	So are these so called artifacts ("banding"/"wobble") avoidable under those lightings conditions or is it something we have to live with ?