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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old November 11th, 2007, 02:31 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serena Steuart View Post
David, agree with your technical argument and just suggesting that until we get the camera it's all a bit academic. The 800 figure predicts that we'll find it much better in low light than available HDV cameras, but until we see what Sony has built in for noise suppression and what effects that has on image quality we really are in the dark.
As about the only person on the planet with a lot of experience with the EX (I shot and edited the very first test footage with the Japanese the week prior to 2007 NAB, and have shot many hours worth for the Sony demos soon to be available on the web and other places), and as a longtime owner/operator of an F900, and one of the testers and first users of the Z1U, A1U, V1U, and XDCAM HD F350 (all of which I own), I can say conclusively that whether or not you choose to ascribe meaning to Jeff Cree's and my rating the EX at 800 ASA, it is a VERY good camera in low light and has very clean blacks. I have a lot to compare it to.

A "low light camera" with noisy blacks is not a low light camera in my book. Part of the criteria for being called a "good low light camera" necessitates clean blacks; otherwise it's useless in low light (unless you like that look.)

Test it for yourself when you can, or believe me and my tests and experiences with it. Or both. Doesn't matter to me!

:-)

High-end DPs (and even Lucasfilms) LOVE this camera and orders are through the roof. These aren't prosumers or amateurs-- they are top-of-the-foodchain DPs who shoot 35mm film and F900s. They must know something...
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Old November 11th, 2007, 03:57 AM   #32
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Jody, well said.

Fellow geeks, pull your thumbs out of your backsides. for $6,700 this is a great camera. Really it is!!!
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Old November 11th, 2007, 05:37 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Serena Steuart View Post
David, agree with your technical argument and just suggesting that until we get the camera it's all a bit academic. The 800 figure predicts that we'll find it much better in low light ......, but until we see ......we really are in the dark.
Well - at least in low lighting levels! :-)

The technical argument is one thing, but I'm basing my first impressions not on reading the 800 figure but what I saw at a show. They are first impressions, but do reinforce what everybody else seems to be saying. It does seem far more sensitive than such as a Z1 or HVX200, no argument there.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 07:40 AM   #34
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Wow, I feel ignorant. What's ASA? It sounds like something from film cameras. I've never seen that listed on any camera's spec sheet until now.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 08:25 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jody Eldred View Post
As about the only person on the planet with a lot of experience with the EX (I shot and edited the very first test footage with the Japanese the week prior to 2007 NAB, and have shot many hours worth for the Sony demos soon to be available on the web and other places), and as a longtime owner/operator of an F900, and one of the testers and first users of the Z1U, A1U, V1U, and XDCAM HD F350 (all of which I own), I can say conclusively that whether or not you choose to ascribe meaning to Jeff Cree's and my rating the EX at 800 ASA, it is a VERY good camera in low light and has very clean blacks. I have a lot to compare it to.
Jody,

Am I reading that you are a beta tester for Sony? If so, welcome(If not, welcome anyway!). Unlike Panasonic, Sony does not post here (as far as I remember). I for one would be very interested in your opinions and observations on the EX as well as other Sony offerings.

Cheers,
G
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Old November 11th, 2007, 08:33 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G.A. Kokes View Post
Jody,

Am I reading that you are a beta tester for Sony? If so, welcome(If not, welcome anyway!). Unlike Panasonic, Sony does not post here (as far as I remember). I for one would be very interested in your opinions and observations on the EX as well as other Sony offerings.

Cheers,
G
So would I.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 08:40 AM   #37
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Jody, can you give us the nitty gritty on the EX....

So far all I have heard is good things about the camera... about the only thing I have heard bad about it is small buttons...

there's got to be more
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Old November 11th, 2007, 09:28 AM   #38
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I believe Jody summed up quite a bit about the ASA/noise question.
This is really going to be one heck of a camera.

I realize the low light ability is one aspect; although , one very important aspect, especially for myself. knowing that the EX1 appears to offer the higher end image profile, it should have the ability to capture some amazing looking footage.

I believe there are quite a few videographers that are "on the fence" with their decision to buy into the EX1. I believe their opinion is probably changing fast.

I really believe Sony has stepped up and offered us a portable package that offers highend results. I imagine this was Panasonic's intentions for the HVX200. It should be interesting what rolls out over the next few years.
I have a feeling 4:2:2 captured internally to a portable cam is coming in the near future.

I would not be surprised if Sony get's there first.

The EX1 with 4:2:2 true 10bit SDI, is really going to open a few more doors.
I wish the upcoming XDR Flash drive would support 10 bit, but regardless, it should produce some nice stuff.

Last edited by Steven Thomas; November 11th, 2007 at 10:35 AM.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 10:21 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G.A. Kokes View Post
Jody,

Am I reading that you are a beta tester for Sony? If so, welcome(If not, welcome anyway!). Unlike Panasonic, Sony does not post here (as far as I remember). I for one would be very interested in your opinions and observations on the EX as well as other Sony offerings.

Cheers,
G
Just to let you know, Jody is one of the best DP's in the business. He worked on Jag, NCIS and several other TV shows. It is a real benefit to us that he has taken the time to post on this forum.

Jody, welcome and thanks for taking the time to post here and share your experiences.

Daniel Weber
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Old November 11th, 2007, 10:32 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Bill Edmunds View Post
Wow, I feel ignorant. What's ASA? It sounds like something from film cameras. I've never seen that listed on any camera's spec sheet until now.
Actually it's very important to know the overall base ASA rating for a camera. And yes it works very much like film. You pick a slow stock or a faster stock depending on the look you're going for. Working with a gaffer and DP lighting a setup everyone has a baseline for their light meter. Then you can say we're going to shoot this scene at f4 and we're rating at ASA 400. Set your meter and go. That can determine what lights to bring in in order to light to the light meter reading which also in turn effects depth of field on the subject your shooting. That effects the budget and other decisions that play into shooting a particular scene. Knowing that the base is as fast ASA 800 gives you the knowledge of how far you can push "the low light boundary" without it crapping out the blacks. I would rather have this info from Jody Eldred, a real DP, than a manufacturers spec sheet. It's real world.

Jody's a true DP while I'm mostly a Producer/Director/Editor who shoots sometimes. On my bigger budget shoots on 16mm/35mm film I always hire a great DoP and a great gaffer. So this is their language and it makes a lot of sense to listen to guys like Jody and I'm glad the camera appears to have this wide latitude for a non-film camera. After all, in digital we can't go a pick a film stock.

So far as I know, there's not a lux "basis" on a light meter. And I second Serena, what's the point of using "lux' anyway. It means nothing when your on a shoot. While if you're working with a light meter knowing the ASA is everything.

Can't wait to get this camera and push it.

Cheers.

.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 10:48 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Jody Eldred View Post
As about the only person on the planet with a lot of experience with the EX
Great to see you here again, Jody -- thanks for coming back!
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Old November 11th, 2007, 11:41 AM   #42
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Welcome Jody, good to see you over this way.

Quote:
Sony does not post here
No, but they do read here :-)
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Old November 11th, 2007, 11:48 AM   #43
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No, but they do read here :-)
It sure seems like Sony is reading this forum. Sony is doing an excellent job at listening to the end user and providing a competitive solution.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 03:52 PM   #44
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If Sony is watching, I sure wish they had added LANC to the EX for those
of us that like to shoot footage underwater....

but then there still is no info on the control port that we see on the camera...
I'm hoping its going to be a lot more than just a lens controller and that it
is actually more of a LANC controller for us...
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Old November 11th, 2007, 11:21 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jody Eldred View Post
As about the only person on the planet with a lot of experience with the EX (I shot and edited the very first test footage with the Japanese the week prior to 2007 NAB, and have shot many hours worth for the Sony demos soon to be available on the web and other places), and as a longtime owner/operator of an F900, and one of the testers and first users of the Z1U, A1U, V1U, and XDCAM HD F350 (all of which I own), I can say conclusively that whether or not you choose to ascribe meaning to Jeff Cree's and my rating the EX at 800 ASA, it is a VERY good camera in low light and has very clean blacks. I have a lot to compare it to.

A "low light camera" with noisy blacks is not a low light camera in my book. Part of the criteria for being called a "good low light camera" necessitates clean blacks; otherwise it's useless in low light (unless you like that look.)

Test it for yourself when you can, or believe me and my tests and experiences with it. Or both. Doesn't matter to me!

:-)

High-end DPs (and even Lucasfilms) LOVE this camera and orders are through the roof. These aren't prosumers or amateurs-- they are top-of-the-foodchain DPs who shoot 35mm film and F900s. They must know something...
Wow...this is all great news! Ever since HD started coming to the masses I've been waiting for a GOOD low light yet affordable (in the low-level professional sense, not $15,000 + body alone models) camera. The EX would be fine as an HDV-level 1/3 camera if it delivered clean blacks at 800 ASA but the full raster, 1/2" chips REALLY do it for me! I will be buying one of these in the next year if it lives up to the hype/after I see test footage and audio samples ;-)
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