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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old November 28th, 2007, 08:29 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Bloom View Post
on the z1 it is labelled as 50/60 but the EX1 calls it pal area and ntsc area
The Z1 label is much clearer to me then the EX1's. Thanx for mentioning it.
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Old November 28th, 2007, 08:33 AM   #17
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Hi Peter & David,

Link correction: www.dvb.org

In the UK this is how we receive DTT in SD PAL form (Freeview etc...) - soon to include HD in certain areas by 2009/2010, rolling out to most areas by 2012 for the London Olympics (at which point analogue broadcasts will have been switched off & fading away into space for the last time).

Sorry for going a little off thread!
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Old November 28th, 2007, 08:43 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Elston View Post
Hi Peter & David,

Link correction: www.dvb.org
Oh, bad typo, sorry. Thanks Dave.

And just to clearify, DVB is a transmission format, while Pal or NTSC
are signal formats, as are all the HD variants.
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Old November 28th, 2007, 09:05 AM   #19
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All 24p formats should be under Hollywood Area in the menus :)

As stated before there is a Country menu for NTSC Area (60Hz) and PAL Area (50Hz). 24p should not be in any of those in my opinion. But if there where to be no Area selection the format menu would not fit the lcd screen and need to scroll down (It does already need to scroll down when set to NTSC Area but only one step).

I would like to see a firmware update using this menu.

Format:
>Progressive

HQ 720p24
HQ 720p25
HQ 720p30
HQ 720p50
HQ 720p60
SP 1080p24
HQ 1080p24
HQ 1080p25
HQ 1080p30

>Interlaced

SP 1080i50
SP 1080i60
HQ 1080i50
HQ 1080i60

Last edited by Andreas Johansson; November 28th, 2007 at 09:36 AM.
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Old November 28th, 2007, 09:11 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Kraft View Post
Pal however is no longer analogue signals any more. These are getting replaced by digital ones un a format called DBV in various forms (look here: www.dbv.org).
Quite right, but the digital signals transmitted via the DVB system in Europe are properly known as 576i/25, and that could just as correctly be referred to as SECAM as PAL - "PAL" only has a relevance if the signals are output as a composite signal. A French DVB receiver may well output them as analogue SECAM.
Quote:
Did not know about a 60Hz Pal area, though. Thanks for that info.
Looking on Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL-M_(television) - I see it's confined to Brazil, whereas I'd thought several South American countries used it. Point is, it uses the PAL system of coding colour with a 60Hz framerate, the term "PAL" doesn't uniquely mean a 50Hz system.
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Old November 28th, 2007, 09:17 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Andreas Johansson View Post
As stated before there is a Country menu for NTSC Area (60Hz) and PAL Area (50Hz). 24p should not be in any of those in my opinion.
My feeling is that 24p being under "60Hz area" is fine, since it would only be used there (with 3:2 pulldown). In a "50Hz area" 25p is likely to be used instead. But "Hollywood area" as a third option also seems a good idea.......... :)
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Old November 28th, 2007, 09:27 AM   #22
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Note that we have two 24p modes in this camera:

- native 24p (HQ)
-24PsF with pulldown inside 60i (SP)

This is why it beats me why there is no 25/30PsF in SP, within the 50i/60i respectively.
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Old November 28th, 2007, 10:51 AM   #23
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This may be a meander off-thread again, but I have a Blu-ray version of the landmark "Planet Earth" series (BBC box-set) which appears to be 24p within a 1080i60 format (ie, with 3:2 pulldown).
I have to say it is noticably jerkier than I recall the SD Tx to have been, still watchable, just a little disappointing as the original 25p(in 50i) has been converted to fit into a 60Hz format.
A little unexpected for a UK-originated production, no...? Well perhaps, but I guess this format was chosen as it is universally viewable across most territories (the US being a large potential market for it) - thus avoiding the need to produce a disc each for the 50Hz and 60Hz markets.

I am worried that for this reason, there are precedents being set that will result in HD @50Hz becoming a broadcast-only format, ie. mass-produced Blu-ray/HD-DVDs will only come in 60Hz flavours (24p/30p/60i) as it is currently the most 'universal' standard. If this happens then player manufacturers may drop support for 50Hz playback altogether (if they ever had it) in order to trim the RRP down to where it needs to be.

In this case, the question is; does shooting in a 50Hz flavour of HD really mean I am future-proofing, or is the only 'safe' choice a 60Hz flavour ?
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Last edited by Dave Elston; November 28th, 2007 at 04:20 PM.
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Old November 28th, 2007, 12:47 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas Johansson View Post
All 24p formats should be under Hollywood Area in the menus :)

I would like to see a firmware update using this menu.

Format:
>Progressive
.
.
.
.
>Interlaced
.
.
.
.
Andreas, I like your Hollywood Area idea ;-)

Nevertheless to differentiate only between "progressive" and "interlaced" frame rates makes absolutely sense in world where it should be paramount tear down borders (in many respects).
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Old November 29th, 2007, 01:57 AM   #25
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I had discussion with technical heads at Czech TV and basically, I am told that in PAL area these days, all tv and most if not all feature films are shot at 25 fps to avoid the 4% speed change that used to be done to films when they were broadcast on PAL tv. So, there is essentially no need for 24 fps in (some) PAL countries. Also, if one wants to shoot in 24 fps (in PAL world), I don't see a reason why not use one of the 'so-called' NTSC settings, which as we established are not NTSC anyway because they are simply HD with 'NTSC' frame/scan rate. Simply switching to 1080p at 24 fps should be all that needs to be done. Shouldn't it?
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Old November 29th, 2007, 05:10 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Jiri Bakala View Post
Also, if one wants to shoot in 24 fps (in PAL world), I don't see a reason why not use one of the 'so-called' NTSC settings, which as we established are not NTSC anyway because they are simply HD with 'NTSC' frame/scan rate. Simply switching to 1080p at 24 fps should be all that needs to be done. Shouldn't it?
I hope so - that's my plan!
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Old November 29th, 2007, 07:57 AM   #27
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Sorry of being ignorant on this, but is this camera PAL and NTSC? If I buy the camera in New York will it be suitable for Europe (PAL areas)? The video out can be switchable to PA or NTSC?

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Old November 29th, 2007, 09:31 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelios Christofides View Post
Sorry of being ignorant on this, but is this camera PAL and NTSC?
Neither - it's HD only.
Quote:
If I buy the camera in New York will it be suitable for Europe (PAL areas)?
Yes, because it does all the 50Hz based HD formats as well as the 60Hz ones.
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Old November 30th, 2007, 12:39 PM   #29
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All my 25p cameras have shutter speeds that go down to 1/25. The EX1 when in 25p only goes to 1/33 and the overcranking is 60 fps rather than 50fps. Both of these are setting for 30p cameras. How come?
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Old November 30th, 2007, 12:46 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Bloom View Post
All my 25p cameras have shutter speeds that go down to 1/25. The EX1 when in 25p only goes to 1/33 and the overcranking is 60 fps rather than 50fps. Both of these are setting for 30p cameras. How come?
Don't have my EX1 yet, but I understand that when you switch the electronic shutter to OFF (with the switch), you'll have the equivalent of 1/25th in 25fps, 1/30th in 30 fps and so on (one full exposure per each full frame).
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Last edited by Piotr Wozniacki; December 1st, 2007 at 03:02 AM.
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