Fewer recording on options in Pal mode than NTSC at DVinfo.net

Phil Bloom · November 27th, 2007, 03:38 PM

Please excuse the terrible English above. I tried to correct it but I can't!

There are fewer settings when in Pal mode. For example in NTSC mode I can record in 1080p 30 in non HQ mode as well as HQ mode, but in Pal I can only record 1080p 25 in HQ mode.

Any ideas why?

Also when people shoot in progressive and click on expanded focus does the display break up before showing the zoomed in version? In interlace it doesn't do it, just progressive.

I am still getting to grips with all the options, but so far it is quite wonderful.

One last thing, with the battery charger, my charging progress leds don't work. Am assuming they should and it is faulty!

Piotr Wozniacki · November 27th, 2007, 04:03 PM

Phil, not having the camera yet and basing only on the manual, I've been wondering why no 25PsF or 30PsF mode in SP (HDV), while the 24PsF with pull down is there!

Now you're getting me interested again: if the 30 PsF mode is present in SP, so must be the 25PsF! They're both in HDV specs (just like with the V1).

How do you set the SP mode to 30p? Didn't see it in the manual...

Peter Kraft · November 27th, 2007, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

There are fewer settings when in Pal mode. For example in NTSC mode...

Smart mode on ^^
Phil, just for the record:
There is no such thing like PAL mode or like NTSC mode in HD.
Smart mode off ^^

Piotr Wozniacki · November 27th, 2007, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Kraft

Smart mode on ^^
Phil, just for the record:
There is no such thing like PAL mode or like NTSC mode in HD.
Smart mode off ^^

The mode you're using is not smart enough; the NTSC and PAL framerates differ in HD just like they do in SD (resolutions are the same, though).

Phil Bloom · November 27th, 2007, 04:18 PM

Exactly. I call it Pal and NTSC because when you buy a camera like an HVX which is Pal it only records in 50i or 25p. The NTSC version 60i, 30p or 24p.

It's the easiest way to label it rather than 50i/25p or 60i/30p/24p. Also in the EX1 menus they are actually labelled as PAL and NTSC!!! So I was actually correct, for once!

I don't have a smart mode, if I had I would have just read the manual but as I am a bloke, I don't need manauls! If I had read it I would have found a simple answer to my dumb question.

It's 24p that only records in SP mode. There is no 24p HQ mode at all. Of course the "PAL" settings.

By the way Piotr, how are you getting on with your dealer (who isn't a sponsor!)? There is one rather "puzzling" retailer in the UK that lists the EX1 as in stock on their website, they are usually pretty accurate. I just find it quite surprising as they seem to be in such short supply. Then again they do seem to be one of the first retailers to get them in as they supplied Paul Joy. Curious...

I am interested to see if anyone has got one from videogear.co.uk (the dvi sponsor) as their prices are the lowest I have seen, despite not being an official Sony dealer I was wondering if anyone has ordered/ got one from them?

Paul Joy · November 27th, 2007, 06:40 PM

Phil, I'm interested in the breaking up you mention when going to expanded view. I mentioned in one of my first posts after getting the camera that the LCD would fill with flickering green bars for a moment before the mode changes, is this what you are seeing?

I also saw this effect when changing shooting modes or flicking the camera between camera and media mode.

Paul.

Carlos Moreira · November 27th, 2007, 06:54 PM

refering to the manual the cam should be switchable between NTSC area and PAL area. the modes:

- NTSC Area:
HQ 1080i 59,94
SP 1080i 59,94
HQ 1080p 29,97
HQ 1080p 23,98
SP 1080p 23,98
HQ 720p 60 fps
HQ 720p 30 fps
HQ 720p 24 fps

- PAL Area:
HQ 1080i 50
SP 1080i 50
HQ 1080p 25
HQ 720p 50 fps
HQ 720p 25 fps

How long does it take to change the mode on the Camera ?
Directly or restart like on the Z1 ?

I wonder there ist no straight 30p and 24p mode for 1080p.
1080 is 23,98fps, 720 is 30 fps .. I hope this makes no problems later in editing a mix of 1080 & 720 ..

And strange - why I do have to switch a mode on a digital storage based system ? This makes no sense - why can´t I simply select the mode I want from a single menue ?

Phil Bloom · November 28th, 2007, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Joy

Phil, I'm interested in the breaking up you mention when going to expanded view. I mentioned in one of my first posts after getting the camera that the LCD would fill with flickering green bars for a moment before the mode changes, is this what you are seeing?

I also saw this effect when changing shooting modes or flicking the camera between camera and media mode.

Paul.

That is what I get, but only in progressive mode. I wonder why?

Phil Bloom · November 28th, 2007, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlos Moreira

refering to the manual the cam should be switchable between NTSC area and PAL area. the modes:

- NTSC Area:
HQ 1080i 59,94
SP 1080i 59,94
HQ 1080p 29,97
HQ 1080p 23,98
SP 1080p 23,98
HQ 720p 60 fps
HQ 720p 30 fps
HQ 720p 24 fps

- PAL Area:
HQ 1080i 50
SP 1080i 50
HQ 1080p 25
HQ 720p 50 fps
HQ 720p 25 fps

How long does it take to change the mode on the Camera ?
Directly or restart like on the Z1 ?

I wonder there ist no straight 30p and 24p mode for 1080p.
1080 is 23,98fps, 720 is 30 fps .. I hope this makes no problems later in editing a mix of 1080 & 720 ..

And strange - why I do have to switch a mode on a digital storage based system ? This makes no sense - why can´t I simply select the mode I want from a single menue ?

It changes very fast and there is no restarting. There is a straight 30p mode in 1080p, it's 29.97, which often just gets rounded up to 30.

what do you mean about "switch a mode"?

Peter Kraft · November 28th, 2007, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

Exactly. I call it Pal and NTSC because when you buy a camera like an HVX which is Pal it only records in 50i or 25p. The NTSC version 60i, 30p or 24p.

It's the easiest way to label it rather than 50i/25p or 60i/30p/24p. Also in the EX1 menus they are actually labelled as PAL and NTSC!!! So I was actually correct, for once!

Phil, did not want to be offensive in any way, sorry. I know, it's a tricky situation and I do fully understand why you label it like you do.
To that respect I wish PAL and NTSC definitions were amended with HD resolutions.
IMHO that would make discussions much clearer and easier.

John Hewat · November 28th, 2007, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

It's 24p that only records in SP mode. There is no 24p HQ mode at all. Of course the "PAL" settings.

Hi Phil,

By this comment do you mean that the 24p mode isn't in the PAL mode?

I assume though that 1080p24 HQ is available in the NTSC mode, right?? Not just SP?

David Heath · November 28th, 2007, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Kraft

To that respect I wish PAL and NTSC definitions were amended with HD resolutions.
IMHO that would make discussions much clearer and easier.

I've heard the distinctions referred to as "50Hz area" and 60Hz area" which seem far more accurate in the world of HD. Strict definitions of PAL and NTSC only refer to analogue signals anyway, and "PAL" doesn't necessarily mean 50Hz. (As South Americans must be only too well aware!)

Phil Bloom · November 28th, 2007, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Hewat

Hi Phil,

By this comment do you mean that the 24p mode isn't in the PAL mode?

I assume though that 1080p24 HQ is available in the NTSC mode, right?? Not just SP?

No, 24p is in the "NTSC area" only

Phil Bloom · November 28th, 2007, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Kraft

Phil, did not want to be offensive in any way, sorry. I know, it's a tricky situation and I do fully understand why you label it like you do.
To that respect I wish PAL and NTSC definitions were amended with HD resolutions.
IMHO that would make discussions much clearer and easier.

on the z1 it is labelled as 50/60 but the EX1 calls it pal area and ntsc area

Peter Kraft · November 28th, 2007, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Heath

I've heard the distinctions referred to as "50Hz area" and 60Hz area" which seem far more accurate in the world of HD. Strict definitions of PAL and NTSC only refer to analogue signals anyway, and "PAL" doesn't necessarily mean 50Hz. (As South Americans must be only too well aware!)

David, that is why in HD the correct denominations are 1080i50 and 1080p25 as well as 1080i60 and 1080p30 to name but a few of the incarnations. Pal however is no longer analogue signals any more. These are getting replaced by digital ones un a format called DBV in various forms (look here: www.dbv.org).
Did not know about a 60Hz Pal area, though. Thanks for that info.

November 27th, 2007, 03:38 PM	#1
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	Fewer recording on options in Pal mode than NTSC Please excuse the terrible English above. I tried to correct it but I can't! There are fewer settings when in Pal mode. For example in NTSC mode I can record in 1080p 30 in non HQ mode as well as HQ mode, but in Pal I can only record 1080p 25 in HQ mode. Any ideas why? Also when people shoot in progressive and click on expanded focus does the display break up before showing the zoomed in version? In interlace it doesn't do it, just progressive. I am still getting to grips with all the options, but so far it is quite wonderful. One last thing, with the battery charger, my charging progress leds don't work. Am assuming they should and it is faulty! __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

November 27th, 2007, 04:03 PM	#2
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	Phil, not having the camera yet and basing only on the manual, I've been wondering why no 25PsF or 30PsF mode in SP (HDV), while the 24PsF with pull down is there! Now you're getting me interested again: if the 30 PsF mode is present in SP, so must be the 25PsF! They're both in HDV specs (just like with the V1). How do you set the SP mode to 30p? Didn't see it in the manual... __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

November 27th, 2007, 04:18 PM	#5
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	Exactly. I call it Pal and NTSC because when you buy a camera like an HVX which is Pal it only records in 50i or 25p. The NTSC version 60i, 30p or 24p. It's the easiest way to label it rather than 50i/25p or 60i/30p/24p. Also in the EX1 menus they are actually labelled as PAL and NTSC!!! So I was actually correct, for once! I don't have a smart mode, if I had I would have just read the manual but as I am a bloke, I don't need manauls! If I had read it I would have found a simple answer to my dumb question. It's 24p that only records in SP mode. There is no 24p HQ mode at all. Of course the "PAL" settings. By the way Piotr, how are you getting on with your dealer (who isn't a sponsor!)? There is one rather "puzzling" retailer in the UK that lists the EX1 as in stock on their website, they are usually pretty accurate. I just find it quite surprising as they seem to be in such short supply. Then again they do seem to be one of the first retailers to get them in as they supplied Paul Joy. Curious... I am interested to see if anyone has got one from videogear.co.uk (the dvi sponsor) as their prices are the lowest I have seen, despite not being an official Sony dealer I was wondering if anyone has ordered/ got one from them? __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

November 27th, 2007, 06:40 PM	#6
Paul Joy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 627	Phil, I'm interested in the breaking up you mention when going to expanded view. I mentioned in one of my first posts after getting the camera that the LCD would fill with flickering green bars for a moment before the mode changes, is this what you are seeing? I also saw this effect when changing shooting modes or flicking the camera between camera and media mode. Paul. __________________ Blog: www.pauljoy.com Company: www.videotrader.co.uk

November 27th, 2007, 06:54 PM	#7
Carlos Moreira Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Spain, Barcelona Posts: 27	refering to the manual the cam should be switchable between NTSC area and PAL area. the modes: - NTSC Area: HQ 1080i 59,94 SP 1080i 59,94 HQ 1080p 29,97 HQ 1080p 23,98 SP 1080p 23,98 HQ 720p 60 fps HQ 720p 30 fps HQ 720p 24 fps - PAL Area: HQ 1080i 50 SP 1080i 50 HQ 1080p 25 HQ 720p 50 fps HQ 720p 25 fps How long does it take to change the mode on the Camera ? Directly or restart like on the Z1 ? I wonder there ist no straight 30p and 24p mode for 1080p. 1080 is 23,98fps, 720 is 30 fps .. I hope this makes no problems later in editing a mix of 1080 & 720 .. And strange - why I do have to switch a mode on a digital storage based system ? This makes no sense - why can´t I simply select the mode I want from a single menue ?