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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old December 10th, 2007, 12:13 PM   #31
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Should I have received the EX1 in early November (as expected), this would be non-issue to me by now. But with the supply shortages and uncertainty on by how much longer the vignetting problem is going to further delay it, I'm staritng to reconsider:

- stick with the EX1, or go for the shoulder-mount HVR-S270E?

Really, if I had to wait for both equally long, and considering my current investment into the HDV-specifc gear around my V1E which I love, it could be a serious alternative: the two cameras would complement each other perfectly. The truly "handycam" style V1E plus the full-sized, stable, better low-light camera with changeable lense. Sharing same tapes for archiving, the DR60 drive I have and/or CF media (OK - the CF only one way), the LANC controllers I have, etc...Tempting, isn't it?

Or is the 35 Mbps codec and the 1/2" imager of the EX1 worth waiting, anyway? Now, I know nobody will make the decision for me, but any comments are welcome!
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Last edited by Piotr Wozniacki; December 10th, 2007 at 01:19 PM.
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Old December 10th, 2007, 01:07 PM   #32
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Or is the 35 Mbps and the 1/2" imager of the EX1 worth waiting, anyway?
From what I've seen there won't be any substitute for the DOF control you can get with the 1/2" chips in the EX1 compared to anything else existing or proposed at this price. And as far as the vignetting issue is concerned I didn't see any sign of that under normal shooting conditions, so it's not something I'd be too worried about. If you can wait until other new cameras are shipping than of course that gives you more options and you can make a more informed decision then, but you may still find the EX1 is a good choice.
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Old December 10th, 2007, 01:11 PM   #33
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Very true, but using specialized lense with the S270 I can have even better control of DOF...
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Old December 11th, 2007, 04:25 AM   #34
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...using specialized lense with the S270 I can have even better control of DOF...
Piotr, this statement is not exactly accurate - the "range of DOF" is a characteristic determined principally by imager size NOT what lens you use. While I'd agree that you could bolt a long lens to the S270, open it up and put distance between camera, foreground and background you will always be compensating (compromising) for the smaller FOV that the 1/3" chips provide.

Short of using a 35mm adapter (Redrock/Letus etc...), the EX1s 1/2" chips will offer noticeably more creative options than the S270 where DOF is concerned. Plus there is the obvious improvement in low light capability, not to mention full HD resolution, tougher codec, etc...

Form-factor may be the only arguable "advantage" the S270 can really claim over the EX1, and the point about keeping a HDV specific workflow is a non-issue as the SxS can record a 25Mbs HDV stream for just this purpose.

Patience Mr. Grasshopper!

;0)
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Old December 11th, 2007, 04:37 AM   #35
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Patience Mr. Grasshopper!
Yeah, I hear you Dave. Patience is something I need...

PS Just got an e-mail from my UK supplier - my EX1 delivery is expected next week! If so, my problem is solved; if only the unit is free from the vignetting issue!
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Last edited by Piotr Wozniacki; December 11th, 2007 at 07:28 AM.
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Old December 11th, 2007, 08:29 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Dave Elston View Post
Piotr, this statement is not exactly accurate - the "range of DOF" is a characteristic determined principally by imager size NOT what lens you use. While I'd agree that you could bolt a long lens to the S270, open it up and put distance between camera, foreground and background you will always be compensating (compromising) for the smaller FOV that the 1/3" chips provide.

Short of using a 35mm adapter (Redrock/Letus etc...), the EX1s 1/2" chips will offer noticeably more creative options than the S270 where DOF is concerned. Plus there is the obvious improvement in low light capability, not to mention full HD resolution, tougher codec, etc...

Form-factor may be the only arguable "advantage" the S270 can really claim over the EX1, and the point about keeping a HDV specific workflow is a non-issue as the SxS can record a 25Mbs HDV stream for just this purpose.

Patience Mr. Grasshopper!

;0)
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Let's get real here. 1/2 inch sensors don't offer a world of a difference in dof than 1/3 inch sensors. Now if we were talking 2/3rd inch, then dof is a factor. Don't get me wrong. I believe the EX1 will be a better overall camera, but the S270 will be darn close. I'm seeing a little better low light performance and a better xdcam codec over hdv. For weddings though, I would definitely go with the S270. I don't want to have to unload flash cards every few minutes. The day is hectic enough.
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Old December 11th, 2007, 08:41 AM   #37
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Let's get real here. 1/2 inch sensors don't offer a world of a difference in dof than 1/3 inch sensors. Now if we were talking 2/3rd inch, then dof is a factor. Don't get me wrong. I believe the EX1 will be a better overall camera, but the S270 will be darn close. I'm seeing a little better low light performance and a better xdcam codec over hdv. For weddings though, I would definitely go with the S270. I don't want to have to unload flash cards every few minutes. The day is hectic enough.
Exactly my way of thinking, with the only difference that I'm not so much into wedding, but live concerts coverage.
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Old December 11th, 2007, 09:05 AM   #38
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For weddings though, I would definitely go with the S270. I don't want to have to unload flash cards every few minutes. The day is hectic enough.
For weddings I don't see a point in paying so much for an S270 when the image probably won't be much different than a V1U...if you want a shoulder-mounted camera the HVR-HD1000U makes more sense. By comparison, the EX1 should have noticeably better low-light capability and noticeably better DOF control, plus recording capacity will be fine once 16GB and 32GB cards are shipping. (I shot a 27 minute ceremony on one 8GB card in SP mode and transferred the footage to my laptop in about 3 minutes, so two 16GB cards plus a laptop could be enough to get you through an entire wedding.)
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Old December 20th, 2007, 06:02 PM   #39
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What are people's experiences between using XDCAM and HDV? I haven't used the XDCAM cameras and I assume that they are better for HD video, but just how much better are they than the HDV format of the Z7?

Its coming close to crunch time to make a decision and I still can't decide!
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Old December 20th, 2007, 10:39 PM   #40
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Matt,

I have the EX1 and the Z1 (and a Sony A1 and Canon HDV20)- so perfect comparison. THe XDCAM codec is light years ahead. Never get macroblocking - EX footage looks a lot nicer and a little sharper (could rate that a lot sharper after I do more shooting). Still like my Z1, but if you can afford it the EX has killer imaging.
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Old December 21st, 2007, 10:44 PM   #41
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Hey there,

Been lurking on the sidelines :)

Seems there's a mix of broadcast and non-broadcast folks.

So I guess the big question for me is...

Are we going to be broadcast compatible with the EX? Who will accept it and maybe more important, who won't?

Nat Geo?
Discovery?
BBC?
Euro broadcasters?
N American broadcasters?

We're focusing more on Nat History / Enviro / Factual TV stuff.

This is the main reason I've been holding out as long as humanly possible...

Thanks and happy holidays!

Joe

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Old December 21st, 2007, 11:36 PM   #42
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>BBC?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/production/hd.shtml

Looks like we're in.
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 12:44 AM   #43
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Maybe not

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/dq/p...rmats_v1_4.pdf


2.1. The following formats are considered to be standard definition:
.
.
.
.
o Non linear editing codecs with bit rates below 160Mbs

The "bit rates below 160Mbs" has me wondering.
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 12:50 AM   #44
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That's pretty strange, because even HDCAM is below 160Mbps (though it's not an NLE codec). Where does it say that?
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 01:44 AM   #45
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That's pretty strange, because even HDCAM is below 160Mbps (though it's not an NLE codec). Where does it say that?
Section 2.1 of the document that I provided the link to. Kind of caught me by surprise too. I don't know what that means in terms of acquisition formats though, certainly excludes DVCPro HD and quite a few others including some very high end wavelet codecs. Of course they may just mean for the deliverables and yet further on in the document they exclude submission on HDCAM SR, probably because they don't have the VCRs to play it out. More likely the document is out of date, our national broadcaster has settled on SR as their standard HD format and they're very close to the BBC.
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