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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old December 10th, 2007, 09:22 PM   #1
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More Grabs - Detail On vs. Detail Off

These are A/B comparisons of detail on vs. detail off (in that order).

Standard gamma 4. 1080p. Detail, when on, at its default settings.

I am happy with the results without detail and probably leave it turned off in most circumstances.
Attached Thumbnails
More Grabs - Detail On vs. Detail Off-1detailon.jpg   More Grabs - Detail On vs. Detail Off-1detailoff.jpg  

More Grabs - Detail On vs. Detail Off-2detailon.jpg   More Grabs - Detail On vs. Detail Off-2detailoff.jpg  

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Old December 10th, 2007, 10:39 PM   #2
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Is the "detail" function just an additional sharpness "boost" in conjunction with the sharpening settings of the camera? The stills on and off look impressive, but I'd have to say that I actually prefer the "on" setting. IMO, it looks sharp without any strong edging that says "video".
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Old December 11th, 2007, 03:36 AM   #3
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that detail setting is really aggressive -- what was the setting (you say default but where does that lay in the possible values)?

load them both up in photoshop, add some levels, and look at areas such as the shadows under the truck - it's sharpening those up too! Plus the big one is the edge around the blue bag nearest the wheel, the difference is night and day. (dare i say filmic vs video?!)

i've noticed this with most of the examples i've seen, from the very first comparison one with all the four cameras.

I don't think much of the detail algorithm they're using, it would be better to sharpen in post if the image needed it, a few seconds in after effects produces a much more pleasing image. (Also if you take just the brightest part of the image (the actual clipped areas) blur a little and screen back onto the source you can soften the those clipped areas, i find it helps a lot especially with little sources)

i think detail off turns this into a much better, natural looking camera. Now, where are all the shipments of it?!

thanks eric, this has been so helpful

paul
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Old December 11th, 2007, 06:28 AM   #4
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Paul,
Have you looked at all the settings for detail?
There's quite a few. I'm sure Paul's test was with the default
setting of a zeros for all parameters.

There's a lot of control for detail on the EX1.
Although, I agree sharpening should be left in post.
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Old December 11th, 2007, 09:04 AM   #5
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The detail off shots look like a DSLR if one shot stills at 1920x1080 pixels. I still prefer the detail off because that is the most natural raw tap from the chips. Some people will of course prefer the detail on because they will view quality as crisp and sharp. Me I see quality as clean smooth gradations that are natural. I am just so amazed at how detailed the EX1 is with the detail off. Like I said in the other thread this is about as much natural detail as you can get without shooting 4k.

This is the first handheld HD camera I have ever seen where you could get a DSLR quality print from the video footage.
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Old December 11th, 2007, 09:14 AM   #6
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After checking the tighter image I thought detail on for sure.. but when checking the other image and seeing the edges of shadows and that chromatic abbrevation looking thingy over the smaller blue thing contrasted to unnatural line, I have to say detail off off off definately
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Old March 11th, 2008, 07:29 AM   #7
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I'm actually torn between detail on and off. It's well known HD always needed a certain level of detail boost. Of course you can do that in post if really needed. But I wonder if the folks using 35mm adapters with the EX1 are also leaving the detail set to off?
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Old March 11th, 2008, 08:10 AM   #8
 
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If you ever do down conversions to SD, you'll want the detail off or set at -40. The artificial sharpening the EX1 provides greatly encourages line twitter and flicker in horizontal lines on the image when downconverted.
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Old March 11th, 2008, 08:38 AM   #9
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Stills don't tell the whole story. The way detail is applied can add an unatural edgieness to motion.

Detail on becomes way more destructive in post. Typically detail (sharpening) is added towards (or at) the end of your workflow to avoid this.

If you are in a live, out of camera situation, then sure, but where you will edit try off.
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Old March 11th, 2008, 09:34 AM   #10
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Yes, off surely looks better when shooting clean, specially if you will stay on video. But how about when shooting for the big screen for example or with a 35mm adapter? I'm wondering if when using a 35mm adapter or if you know you are doing a filmout, if detail ON could help any since you take a resolution hit. I'm thinking of getting a Letus Extreme so I'm interested in how people are shooting with 35mm adapters.
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Old March 11th, 2008, 09:41 AM   #11
 
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I'm still waiting for my LEX to arrive. Once I get it, I plan on posting a PP with Canon lenses. More to follow....
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Old March 11th, 2008, 09:58 AM   #12
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Have any of you ever seen any Red footage? It is actually very soft. If you plan on doing a film out I would for sure shoot with detail off.

24p doesn't look very good with edge enhancement. 24p needs smooth transitions and this is why some cameras that shoot true 24p may not look as good as others. People always ask why HDCAM looks so much better at 24p and it is because it doesn't need as much if any edge enhancement. Film is not as crisp and detailed as some people think it is. That is the whole point to using a camera with native 1920x1080 chips. It looks highly detailed without the need for edge enhancement.

Even for interlaced video edge enhancement is bad. Even if you keep it as interlaced HD the sharper the detail the more you will notice as each field is diaplayed. The smoother the gradations in interlaced video the better the fields will blend together when they playback. Sharpness was designed to make up for images that are too soft with the EX1 you don't really need it.
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Old March 11th, 2008, 01:12 PM   #13
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Here's a quick RED ONE frame grab from our tests the other night.
The original was a 48mb tiff file 4096x2048

I resized it to 1440x720 jpeg.

Looking at the full 4K image is quite amazing the amount of detail.
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More Grabs - Detail On vs. Detail Off-000559.jpg  

Last edited by Steven Thomas; March 11th, 2008 at 06:18 PM.
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Old March 11th, 2008, 01:35 PM   #14
 
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sheesh! I love the bokeh!
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Old March 11th, 2008, 03:34 PM   #15
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Yes sir! ;)
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