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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old December 19th, 2007, 09:34 AM   #1
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how would you multi cam a bunch of EX1's

I was just thinking that with the EX1's lowlight and picture that rivals the big boys. You could do a rather great looking concert. The problem is the short recording times of sxs cards, and figureing out some kind system for color balanceing, tally and what not.

A couple things I was thinking were shoulder mount rigs for the handheld cameras. I have no idea how one would get a long shot on that short little 12x lens? What about camplexs's hdv thingy. Obviously it would be switched live, but what about independant camera recording for touch-ups and what not.
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Old December 19th, 2007, 12:53 PM   #2
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For color correction in post why not just hang one of these up somewhere?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...t_Digital.html
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Old December 19th, 2007, 01:39 PM   #3
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May be, but what about live stuff. Does anybodt know if the EX1 can take a memory stick to setup parameters.
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Old December 19th, 2007, 03:52 PM   #4
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I can't find the thread but I read here yesterday that you can set 1 scene file on the memory stick and move it from camera to camera to insure the same settings thru out.
Also since the cards record 50 minutes on an 8 gig (35mbps) and you can hot swap the cards how about a grip to take the used cards to a laptop with a big HD and DL to that. Since it DLs so quickly you should be able to get the cards back to the cams fast.
As for CC and talley during the live shoot, I have never figured out a way to do that without a triax system setup, but then maybe I'm just missing something.
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 04:29 PM   #5
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Ok,

The idea of hot swapping cards is a little scarry for me. What about a firestore on each camera, that would be cheaper the 18 gig cards. If one could make custom cables with power, video, and intercom; the intercom being the datavideo intercom that suports tally. Now that would be a very economical, high end production system.

Any Ideas on how to get a longer zoom on the EX1?
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 09:28 PM   #6
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Then you're missing the point of the cards.
To go to a firestore then the EX1 isn't the right camera for you. There should be nothing scarry about hot swapping the cards. While 1 card is being recorded to the other is being cleared off of material then reinstalled back into the camera start recording to that and remove the other one DL reinstall ETC. BTW the cards are 8, 16 and hopefully soon to be a 32 gig. at 35mbps the 8 gives 50 minutes-2 in the camera=110 minutes of glorious HD. Almost 2 hours. Thats a pretty long concert but if not enough get another 8 gig card and have almost 3 hours or record time OR
maybe you need to look at the 330, 350 or 355 and record to a disc OR triax them all back to a recorder and do a live switch.
As for a longer lens for the EX I haven't seen anything yet but then Schneider may have something maybe even Sony but again perhaps you'd be better off with a 350 that has interchangable lenses and you can get a much longer lens.
Here's the catch as I'm sure you're well aware. The loner lens for the 350 will cost as much or more than a complete EX1, at least for a good lens. So if you can get over hot swapping the cards and move the camera(s) in a bit closer you'll find the EX to be a great piece of gear. NO I don't have one but someone I know got thiers very recently and frankly I fell in love all over again. It's a superb piece of equipment.
Your choice.
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Old December 24th, 2007, 10:07 AM   #7
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Actually it's:
16GB = 50 minutes (35mb HQ)
16GB = 70 minutes (25mb HDV SP)

So, 8GB is half that.

Also, yes you can save the EX1 camera's settings and all picture profiles to an SxS card and transfer it to each camera.

So here's the deal:
Ideally you need at least two 16GB cards.
This would give you 100 minutes (35mb) of non stop recording.

You can hot swap one drive and off load it while recording on the other,
or you can pray there's some sort of intermission, or break that will allow enough time to dump your footage.

I have a feeling that in a year our 8GB cards will be worthless and 32GB cards will be feasible. Using two 32GB cards, that's 3HRs & 20 minutes of 35mb.
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Old December 24th, 2007, 10:33 AM   #8
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Yep, my bad, got my numbers confused or maybe I was HOPING an WISHING!

I agree, I think before the end of the year not only will the 32s be out but the price will drop to the point that the 16s and 32s will be much more affordable OR maybe I'm just HOPING and WISHING again.

Happy Holidays!
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Old December 24th, 2007, 11:01 AM   #9
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Old December 24th, 2007, 11:25 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Bloom View Post
I agree, I think before the end of the year not only will the 32s be out but the price will drop to the point that the 16s and 32s will be much more affordable OR maybe I'm just HOPING and WISHING again.

Happy Holidays!
Don
Actually, I'm even hearing this from some dealers.
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Old December 24th, 2007, 12:32 PM   #11
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Andrew,

The EX1 would be great for a live cam environment. The 4:2:2 HD-SDI port will output some beautiful HD, at even a much higher bitrate than you could ever record to the camera.

I see that nobody has really answered your question, so this is what you would do:


1. You'll need an HD-SDI switcher. Here are a few "budget" HD-SDI Switchers:

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp...odel=AV-HS300G

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp...odel=AV-HS400N

http://www.markertek.com/SearchProdu...f=72&sort=prod


2. Monitors to preview each of your sources:

http://www.lcdracks.com/racks/1.8-4.3.html


3. A recording device. Most likely, you'll want to build a very fast computer for this so that you can record a 4:2:2 stream via something like a Blackmagic HD card or AJA HD card. You could also purchase a tape machine that has an HD-SDI input, but you're talking about a ton of money. I would definitely go the building a computer route because it will probably cost somewhere around $2500 with the card. You probably won't find a deck for less than $8k.


4. Cables. You could use a Camplex system, or you could just go bnc back to your monitors and switcher. You would have to run a seperate tally system though.


5. Audio. A compact mixer would be all you would need mixer wise. We have Yamaha O1v96 digital mixers that run around 2k each which work out very nicely. They have up to 32 inputs in a very compact package. You would also need to get some microphones, a nice set of headphones or studio monitors, stands, etc.


6. Communications. You'll have to communicate somehow with your crew. You can get systems from Clearcom, RTS, Telex, and Anchor Audio (Portacom). For time and budget efficiency, I would definitely go with the Portacom units, because they sound good, look professional, and their wireless units work pretty well at not a lot of extra cost. You can pick up a 6 pack full duplex wireless system from Portacom for around $3k.

7. Support: Monitors, Tripods, Shoulder Mounts, Steadicams, and control systems are going to be something you'll have to consider. It is possible to use the on camera lcd to monitor, but it may not be big enough. Some 7" widescreen guys to mount up on your hotshoe would be cool. You'll need quality sticks and heads for the cameras. If you are going to handhold any cameras, you can get all different flavors of shoulder mounts, or go the steadicam route (would suggest Glidecam). You'll need a zoom and focus controller, so you can stand behind the camera and control it. Your guys won't want to be hunched over the camera all day / night and his just makes it easier.


8. Cameras (well, obviously). I would say minimum of 3, but no more than 5 or 6, unless you're doing some very complex events. We do televised football games generally with 5 cameras max.


9. Computer or Laptop for graphics. Ideally, you want to "build" all your graphics ahead of time. That way, you can key them in over what you are doing. It is possible to do this in post though as well if you're producing something soley for DVD.



There can be a lot more involved here that what I have mentioned, depending on what you need to do and how you need to do it. ESPN brings out broadcast trucks that cost anywhere from $15-30 million to their games. Basically, it's a portable studio. But for some small event production, what I have mentioned above would be the way to go. You'll be able to cover a wide range of events with a nice portable system.


Just a note: If you would like to record each of the cameras individually, you really only have a couple of options. Either record to the SxS cards or build extra computers that can record the sources indivdually.


This is not a cheap endeavor. I priced out a system for about $75,000 last month based around the EX1's. This is pretty much what we're going with as well. I hope this has helped and let us know if you have any questions.

Kit
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Old December 24th, 2007, 04:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew McMillan View Post
May be, but what about live stuff. Does anybodt know if the EX1 can take a memory stick to setup parameters.
You use the SxS card to store setting parameters that can be moved to other cameras. It's quite easy to do.
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Old December 24th, 2007, 04:49 PM   #13
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Matching cameras is easy with the EX1. Set one camera up and then just transfer the settings over to the other cameras. All the cameras will look the same.

If you are going to run backup recording I recommend you sync all the timecodes on the cameras so you can more easily get the video between cameras close.

Don't worry about the short recording time on the cards. They automatically switch between cards as one fills up and you can hot swap the full card for another empty one and just keep going. All this takes is money. ;)

You can not record HDV via firewire at the same time as you are recording 35mb to the SXS card. If you are going to switch it live via HD-SDI then recording to HDV would be a big step backwards for sure.

If you are going to switch live and you want to have tally and maybe even intercom you can check out a switcher like this - http://www.datavideo.us/products/se_1000_main_page.htm
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Old December 29th, 2007, 09:39 PM   #14
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thanks guys now thats what I'm talking about.
The only thing is that camplex is a little too expesive. (12,000) per unit Ouch! I think the broadcast store could definately hook me up with some custom cable snakes for each cam. I'd also think about the anton braurer Elipz batteries for the cams. There is probably no way to get the zoom I would need for the front of house camera with the EX, so get one F350.( that takes a little card too right?)
Now all thats left is to rig it up in a box and put it in a van.

One more thing I won't need hd-sdi recording for a little while, so what would be a good way to down convert the live out for sd broadcast.
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Old December 30th, 2007, 08:32 AM   #15
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No the 350 records to a BluRay disc. No cards. However the disc is 25.9 gigs (off the top of my head so I might be off a bit) and IIRC there is a new disc coming out (or already is) that is larger. Again though, cost is more. Way more. Camera body, lens, discs, disc reader/burner, batteries, charger-bigger camera, bigger expense to set up and run.
Your choice.
Don
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