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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old September 22nd, 2008, 02:08 PM   #346
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Here's a link to the Vortex Media "Mastering the Sony PMW-EX1" Vortex Media's - Mastering the PMW-EX1 Training DVD

I highly recommend it... it goes through pretty much everything you need to get your Sony EX1 up and running. I do MUCH better with visual learning than reading manuals.

I don't even know the Picture Profile details the video showed because I changed the settings while watching the video with my camera in hand. I just know it made a big difference in my footage, mostly with punchier colors and better highlite control. Even if I had written down the profile details (which I didn't), I'm not sure it would be right for me to share it since Vortex Media created a commercial DVD with this information.

I would just say that this DVD was excellent for someone like me who is relatively new to the whole serious video world. It's like the manual coming to life, and believe me, I need a lively manual to figure things out, ha! There are a couple other DVDs on the Sony EX1 that I haven't seen but I'd bet they're very helpful too.
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Old September 22nd, 2008, 02:17 PM   #347
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Since I don't want to come across as promoting Vortex Media's DVD training over others, here's a link to two others, which they probably review picture profiles too (but I'm not 100% sure).

Call Box

VASST : Inside the Sony XDCAM EX::Sony PMW-EX1 Training DVD

Actually, I just went to the VASST site linked above and played the YouTube clip on the front page and it talks about picture profiles in the sample clip.
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Old October 20th, 2008, 09:33 PM   #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ravens View Post
First blush inspection of the EX1 color balance showed weak green/cyan and a fairly narrow dynamic range. The histogram filled only about 3/4 of the x axis and tended to be on the underexposure side of things. Granted, I don't have a 3 color histogram, so, this is really an approximation. My goal was to increase the dynamic range, improve the exposure without blowing the hi-lites and muddying the shadows. I, also, wanted to bring up the weak green/cyan.

Anyone familiar with Paolo Ciccone's True Color calibration for the JVC HD100 knows the procedure...
JVC HD100 Calibration

It would be great to have someone validate my results. I'll redo more fine tuning as I go on. For the time being, my latitude is increased above the factory settings, my saturation is more lifelike. The histogram now displays a range from near 0 to 100%. Peaks are well distributed over the range without favoring lows or hi's.
It would appear from my first attempt to check my EX3 that the EX3 might need much different values than the EX1 to correct things like you have done Bill. I used an X-Rite Color Checker chart and the vectorscope pattern looks way off in Adobe On Location. The chart I use is not the same as you used but it does give the indication that there are big differences. I have a DSC chart on the way and will report my results

Once I get this done I will be on the way to providing my own feedback on different picture profiles and I hope I can provide some more details on the inner workings for others.
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Old October 24th, 2008, 02:53 AM   #349
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Can somebody confirm that the profiles done by Bill Ravens have the
"Detail" switched to OFF.
Thanks
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Old October 24th, 2008, 06:27 AM   #350
 
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Mark...

As far as color goes, DETAIL doesn't matter. Use it at your discretion. The contemporary knowledge is that DETAIL ON/LEVEL 0 adds sharpening. DETAIL OFF and LEVEL-40 is approximately no sharpening.
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Old October 24th, 2008, 06:35 AM   #351
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Thank you Bill.
My current PP are below how do they compare to your current ones?

MATRIX ON
SELECT HISAT
LEVEL 0
PHASE -5
R-G +75
R-B 0
G-R -18
G-B -32
B-R -27
B-G +13
OFFSET WHITE OFF
DETAIL ON
GAMMA LEVEL 0
GAMMA SELECT CINE 1/3/4
BLACK -4
BLACK GAMMA 0
SKIN TONE DETAIL OFF
LOW KEY SAT 0
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Old October 24th, 2008, 09:11 AM   #352
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Mark, how did you come across these settings?
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Old October 24th, 2008, 11:18 AM   #353
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G'day Steven,
Having gone through every post on this thread, I wrote down
every change that Bill made.
I think that these were the last he posted.
Unless somebody or he says otherwise.
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Old October 25th, 2008, 12:34 AM   #354
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I am beginning to believe that picture profiles made for one camera will not necessarily translate to the same look or output on another camera. I am still working on profiles for my EX3 using a DSC chart and then working with real life scenes. It certainly looks like my camera requires different settings than Bill has used to set his to proper colour reproduction.

I am using Premiere Pro CS4 to get its On Location but Adobe has made changes to the latest version in their great wisdom that removes the ability to scale vector waveforms. Without this ability to scale, it becomes much more difficult to adjust the colour matrix to match correct reproduction using the DSC charts. It is not impossible though.

I am noticing that different gammas have different apparent detail and colour mapping at zeroed settings.

This will take some time to fully understand all the interactions but I will post my profiles this next week as I have them developed so far.
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Old October 25th, 2008, 05:20 AM   #355
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Headroom

Hello, I am in the process of producing a film that is intended to be screened digitally in a local cinema/theatre and so I have been in search for the best picture profile for me, which in effect is one that will give me as much of a filmic look as possible in camera yet at the same time give me the maximum head room for colour manipulation in post. (The intended look for the end piece will be similar to Bourne Ultimatum/88 Minutes)

So in my search I have had meetings with several successful DOP's and camera operators of whom all gave me similar advice, which was; if you are shooting on HD give yourself as much room as possible for post production, so unlike many picture profiles that have become popular it could limit the grading process if the blacks are already recorded as dark as they can be before crushing etc.

This leads me on to ask the advice of anyone that has had the opportunity to experiment with different picture profiles and see the results on a big screen. What profile has given you the most headroom in post and how has the footage held up to vigorous color grading? Also I notice there isnít much talk of the matrix settings in comparison to the amount of posts on this subject and so I would like to ask peoples thoughts on HISAT VS CINEMA and why people would choose one other the other when shooting drama based work. On initial inspection it would seem CINEMA would give me the most headroom in post but there must be a trade off between using this and HISAT seeing as it would appear to be so un-common with ex1 users.

Would love to hear your thoughts/examples?
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Old October 25th, 2008, 06:24 AM   #356
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alexander View Post
What profile has given you the most headroom in post and how has the footage held up to vigorous color grading?
Chances are excellent the factory settings are your best bet. These are the closest settings to "neutral" (across the board) that you'll find.
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Old October 25th, 2008, 06:42 AM   #357
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My experience is that as long as I shoot single-camera, my various PP's are useful and can produce nice results.

But when I was doing a 3 EX1 project lately, we decided to go as neutral as possible - PP off and manually preset WB on all 3 cameras.

The result being identical picture from all 3, easy to inter-cut in Vegas and with plenty of latitude preserved.
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Old October 25th, 2008, 09:16 PM   #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alexander View Post
Also I notice there isn’t much talk of the matrix settings in comparison to the amount of posts on this subject and so I would like to ask peoples thoughts on HISAT VS CINEMA and why people would choose one other the other when shooting drama based work. On initial inspection it would seem CINEMA would give me the most headroom in post but there must be a trade off between using this and HISAT seeing as it would appear to be so un-common with ex1 users.

Would love to hear your thoughts/examples?
The reason most of us won't have too much to say about matrix is because it's subjective, there's no right or wrong if it gives you the look you're after, and to say that one is more correct than the other can sound disrespectful to those who use it to good effect for their own interpretations of art, or science.

For me, the hisat matrix doesn't work, but again it's just my opinion. The problem I have with it is that it seems oversaturated in the shadow areas, or with lower light levels. My preference is Standard +4. But it's just my opinion, and contrary to the majority around here, I use Std3 gamma. It's quite likely that hisat matrix works better with one of the cine gamma curves, so my observations could be skewed.
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Old October 25th, 2008, 09:39 PM   #359
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NOT ANOTHER DETAIL "ON" POST! Oh Nooo...

Opinions toward the detail "On" setting run about 30 to 1 against, or so it seems. I know I'm walking on thin ice, but I am wearing a lanyard.

My gift of sharing and caring, if you dare to experiment, is a well tested picture profile for the detail "On" setting that vanquishes the highly objectionable outline-halos of the default setting, while imparting a low noise organic texture with finely resolved detail that holds up to scrutiny.

Setting: On
Level : +1
Frequency: +65
Crispening: 0
H/V Ratio: 0
White Limiter: +75
Black Limiter: +75
V DTL Creation: Y
Knee APT Level: 0

Explanation:

- Black and white halos are the ringing, or overshooting at the transition edge of high contrast objects.

- The Frequency +65 setting narrows the width of a halo'd outline.
- The Black Limiter +75 setting clips the black outline at a higher IRE, where it's more like a dark gray.
- The White Limiter +75 setting clips the the white outline at a lower IRE, where it's more like a light gray.
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Old October 31st, 2008, 04:25 AM   #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Nagy View Post
I am beginning to believe that picture profiles made for one camera will not necessarily translate to the same look or output on another camera. I am still working on profiles for my EX3 using a DSC chart and then working with real life scenes. It certainly looks like my camera requires different settings than Bill has used to set his to proper colour reproduction.
Quote:
Chances are excellent the factory settings are your best bet. These are the closest settings to "neutral" (across the board) that you'll find.
I don't understand this surely the cameras are made from the same bits? Surely testing is done before leaving the factory to make sure a standard is met? Surely one persons settings would be close if not the same as anothers? If the Cameras out of the box settings are all equal as Piotr seems to say then why wouldn't colour profiles be too? Or are we saying everyones colour profile settings are what you get is a lucky dip?

Surely having colours accurately recorded and a film curve added to stop blown out highlights enables more information to be captured, than out of the box standard settings?
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