Deleting Clips from SxS via Computer at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 26th, 2007, 10:11 AM   #1
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Posts: 3,778
Deleting Clips from SxS via Computer

It seems you can't delete clips from the SxS card via Sony XDCAM Transfer Software 2.1.

While there looks to be a clip delete function if you look at page 19 footnote in the above manual it says:

a)This command cannot be executed int the following cases.
When the source is an SxS memory card or a folder with the same file structure as XDCAM EX.

It seems like a circumlocutious way of saying you actually can't delete clips from SxS card via XDCAM Transfer software.

I'd really not have the camera operator doing this especially if they're in the process of an ongoing recording to the other card.

I don't want the camera operator to be distracted from shooting. I don't want the camera operator to mistakenly wipe the wrong card. I'd really want the media wrangler / assistant taking care of this.

Maybe I'm missing something about deleting clips via the computer. Any thoughts on this?
Craig Seeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 26th, 2007, 10:37 AM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 245
Why not go the easy way?

Craig,

You are on a MacBook Pro, right?

Why not switch from the XDCAM Transfer Software to the Finder?

Why not simply delete the files on the SxS Card via Finder?

Or, alternatively, why not simply reformat the SxS Card via the Finder?

I cannot see any necessity to delete the files through the XDCAM Transfer
software. Or am I missing something?
Peter Kraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 26th, 2007, 12:56 PM   #3
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Posts: 3,778
Mac G5 but will be getting a MacBookPro shortly. Only difference is that the Intel CPUs can use Clip Browser.

I understand that reformatting from the Mac's Disk Utility is a no, no. Apparently the FAT32 format done in does some other things than a simple FAT32 format.

See Page 31 of the manual.
"Any SxS memory card formatted with a device other than this camcorder cannot be used with the camcorder."
and also
"SxS memory cards to be used with this camcorder must be formatted using the format function of this camcorder."

I'd also rather delete all clips rather than format. Formatting means you'll lose any settings you've stored to the card.

A Delete All Clips or a Delete on Transfer (much like a digital still camera) would be good. Asking an assistant to go into Finder to find the mounted card to delete clips manually is asking for trouble in my opinion.

I'd like the work flow to be a simple, xfer, delete clips, hand back the card.
Craig Seeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 26th, 2007, 01:43 PM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Seeman View Post
Apparently the FAT32 format done in does some other things than a simple FAT32 format.
FAT 32 is FAT 32 -- unless some additional folders/infos are added during formatting that do not disturb the overall FAT 32 format. Same as with flash media for digital still cameras.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Seeman View Post
See Page 31 of the manual.
"Any SxS memory card formatted with a device other than this camcorder cannot be used with the camcorder."
and also
"SxS memory cards to be used with this camcorder must be formatted using the format function of this camcorder."
See above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Seeman View Post
I'd also rather delete all clips rather than format. Formatting means you'll lose any settings you've stored to the card.
Good point. Did not know that.

So all-in-all I'd prefer deleting transfered clips via Finder. For me it seems to be the workflow of choice, if your assistant is a smart one.
Peter Kraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 26th, 2007, 02:12 PM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Posts: 3,778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Kraft View Post
FAT 32 is FAT 32 -- unless some additional folders/infos are added during formatting that do not disturb the overall FAT 32 format. Same as with flash media for digital still cameras.
I believe someone, somewhere (this forum?) had tried formating FAT32 from the Mac formating utility and said it did not work. The manual implies that it must be done from the camera too. I suspect there's something else done in formating beyond the FAT32 format.
Craig Seeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 26th, 2007, 03:35 PM   #6
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 4,086
Yes, the camera must do its own formatting or it won't accept the card. Somebody formatted the DR60 drive to NTFS using his PC in order to fool the camera, and guess what - the moment he conected it to the V1 via firewire, it got re-formatted into FAT32 within a second...
__________________
Sony PXW-FS7 | DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive
Piotr Wozniacki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 26th, 2007, 03:49 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
Somebody formatted the DR60 drive to NTFS using his PC in order to fool the camera, and guess what - the moment he conected it to the V1 via firewire, it got re-formatted into FAT32 within a second...
Well, NTFS and FAT 32 are two different beasts.
But to re-instate what I said earlier: I'm pretty sure the camera adds additional info onto the card apart from the plain formatting process.

Can someone please compare the content of a camera formatted SxS Card with one that was formatted by a computer? Should shed some light onto the difference between those two cards.
Peter Kraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 26th, 2007, 08:22 PM   #8
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: New York City
Posts: 82
After formatting the card in the camera, the card contains a directory/folder called BPAV, which contains 2 subdirectories and 2 XML files.

G:\BPAV>DIR
Volume in drive G has no label.

Directory of G:\BPAV

12/26/2007 08:37 PM <DIR> .
12/26/2007 08:37 PM <DIR> ..
12/26/2007 08:37 PM <DIR> CLPR
12/26/2007 08:37 PM <DIR> TAKR
12/26/2007 08:37 PM 271 CUEUP.XML
12/26/2007 08:37 PM 422 MEDIAPRO.XML
2 File(s) 693 bytes
4 Dir(s) 8,076,034,048 bytes free


As you record clips, it creates subdirectories within the /BPAV/CLPR subdirectory, one subdirectory per clip:

G:\BPAV>dir CLPR
Volume in drive G has no label.

Directory of G:\BPAV\CLPR

12/26/2007 08:37 PM <DIR> .
12/26/2007 08:37 PM <DIR> ..
12/26/2007 08:40 PM <DIR> 083_0270_01
12/26/2007 08:43 PM <DIR> 083_0271_01
12/26/2007 08:45 PM <DIR> 083_0272_01
...
...


And the 2 XML files mentioned above are updated -- the XML files have references/pointers to the clips/subdirectories which have been saved in the card.

Simply deleting the clips (directories/folders) on the card outside the camera might cause a problem -- the XML files would then have references/pointers to non-existent clips. I guess one thing you can try is to save a copy of the XML files (the ones that are created after you format the card which do not point to any clips) to your PC/Mac. You can then delete the clips on the PC/Mac, and copy the XML files from the PC/Mac to the card.
Bernard Racelis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2007, 04:07 AM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 245
Bernard,

thank you for that very enlightening research.
It definitely says two things:
simply formatting the card outside the camera is feasible but requires the card to be reformatted in the camera
simply deleting the files outside the camera is also feasible but makes the card practically unsuable unless a complicated process is initiated

So, what is needed is a little application that copies the files from the card onto the laptop, formats the cards afterwards and "conditions" it with the necessary folders and files as described by you.

Makes me wonder if we might get the guy who wrote a similar application for use with P2 cards for the HVX200 to write that for the EX1.

Or is somebody out there fit enough to write an Automator script for the MacBookPro?
Peter Kraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2007, 04:10 AM   #10
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 4,086
With all the above said, I still remember somebody saying in another thread that yes you can just delete the clips after off-loading them to the PC, and use the card in the EX1 without it breaking continuous recording to check or otherwise prepare the card...
__________________
Sony PXW-FS7 | DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive
Piotr Wozniacki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2007, 04:14 AM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 245
Automator solution

The more I think about it the more I like the Automator solution.

Copying the files from the SxS Card onto a MacBook Pro is a repeatable structured process (and therefore can be automated)
Deleting all the files an that SxS Card is a structured process as well (and therefore can be automated)
Re-establishing the required folders and files on the SxS Card is also a repeatable and structured process (and therefore can be automated, too)

Any ideas and thoughts?

Last edited by Peter Kraft; December 27th, 2007 at 04:17 AM. Reason: deleting typo
Peter Kraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2007, 04:16 AM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 245
Piotr,

you may be right .... or not. Has to be tested.
Unfortunately I don't have an EX1 (or SxS Cards for that matter)
available here.
Peter Kraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2007, 05:03 AM   #13
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 245
Just as a reference:
Look here if you'd like for SxS Cards what Anders Holck
made for the P2 Cards: www.p2genie.com/
Peter Kraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2007, 06:38 AM   #14
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: New York City
Posts: 82
I deleted the entire BPAV directory on the card.
As soon as I turn the camera on, it recreates the BPAV directory structure and the XML files, and you can start shooting as normal.

The profile settings are stored in a separate "SONY" directory, therefore you don't lose the profile settings if you delete the entire BPAV directory.

H:\SONY\PRO\CAMERA\XDCAM_EX\PMW_EX1>dir
Volume in drive H has no label.

Directory of H:\SONY\PRO\CAMERA\XDCAM_EX\PMW_EX1

12/27/2007 07:03 AM <DIR> .
12/27/2007 07:03 AM <DIR> ..
12/27/2007 07:03 AM 3,770 SETUP.SUF
1 File(s) 3,770 bytes



I also performed another test -- I deleted the subdirectories that contain the clips, but I did not delete the main BPAV directory and the XML files.
When I start the EX Clip browser, it displays "X"s because the XML files are now pointing to clips that are missing. And when you turn on the camera, it knows there's something missing and on the LCD it prompts you "The card (A) needs to be restored", "Execute/Cancel", when you select "Execute", it recreates the XML files.
Bernard Racelis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2007, 06:48 AM   #15
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 4,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernard Racelis View Post
[...] And when you turn on the camera, it knows there's something missing and on the LCD it prompts you "The card (A) needs to be restored", "Execute/Cancel", when you select "Execute", it recreates the XML files.
Will the camera do it right upon the card insertion and without interruption to recording to the other card, or only when say the other card becomes full, and the camera tries to switch to the card in question (in the latter case, I guess a recording interruption would be unavoidable)?
__________________
Sony PXW-FS7 | DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive
Piotr Wozniacki is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:49 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network