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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
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Old January 16th, 2008, 11:13 AM   #1
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EX1 IS noisy!

I saw virtually ALL footage out there coming fom the EX1, and it's all full of noise!
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Old January 16th, 2008, 11:21 AM   #2
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Well it certainly has noise, as do all recording media (including Kodak Vision 3 film stock).

But I think what everyone is pleased about is how much less apparent noise it has than its predecessors.
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Old January 16th, 2008, 11:44 AM   #3
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Yes, all cameras have some perceived noise.
Although, this camera sure is lower than anything "i've" used under $10K USD.
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Old January 16th, 2008, 12:52 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giovanni Speranza View Post
I saw virtually ALL footage out there coming fom the EX1, and it's all full of noise!
So how does someone see all the footage ever shot by an EX1 ? Are you seeing raw footage, or some highly compressed footage ?

So your post has me curious. By other posts, you seem to have an EX1 or access to one. Are you shooting it without gain ? While I don't know this camera, I was fooled about my FX1 a year or so back, when I didn't realize I had to take positive steps to assure the camera wasn't automatically adding gain. Is that a possibility here ?
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Old January 16th, 2008, 01:37 PM   #5
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Ciao Alessandro ;)



I'm a HVX200 user DECEIVED by it's NOISE to SPECS ratio!
Despite 4:2:2, 100Mb/s, the camera features noise blocks that make that camera only usable for web movies or hobbyists.
I'm gonna buy another camera and i'm interested in the EX1 or the XHA1.
So i'm investigating before being cheated another time!


Yes, i believe that the EX1 is one of the best camera ever made under 20K.
But it's noisy. Most of the footage i see is compressed and down-rez, but i had the opportunity to see raw footage from slashcam.de and the music changes.
I can't pretend a $10K camera to look like the wonderful Kodak Vision 3, but i like the truth, and the EX1 is quite noisy, a different noise (smaller, cuter, more omogeneus) but could be a problem for what i'm gonna produce: low cost movies and mid cost commercials for national TV.
So before making another idiocy i want to be sure that i will buy a camera that, yes it's far to be perfect, but is what i need.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos View Post
So how does someone see all the footage ever shot by an EX1 ? Are you seeing raw footage, or some highly compressed footage ?

So your post has me curious. By other posts, you seem to have an EX1 or access to one. Are you shooting it without gain ? While I don't know this camera, I was fooled about my FX1 a year or so back, when I didn't realize I had to take positive steps to assure the camera wasn't automatically adding gain. Is that a possibility here ?
The contrary: Downrez compressed web movies HIDE the camera noise.
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Old January 16th, 2008, 01:41 PM   #6
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It sounds as if you have some pretty high standards, which is good, but saying the HVX is only suitable for web videos makes me think you are going to be hard pressed to find a suitable option. Happy shopping though.
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Old January 16th, 2008, 01:48 PM   #7
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It sounds as if you have some pretty high standards, which is good, but saying the HVX is only suitable for web videos makes me think you are going to be hard pressed to find a suitable option. Happy shopping though.
I agree. Unless i lower my expectation i will have to rent Arri's.
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Old January 16th, 2008, 01:56 PM   #8
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I agree. Unless i lower my expectation i will have to rent Arri's.
Um.....to say that if the EX-1 does not meet your expectations means you will have to rent Arris is a strange statement. If you were to be saying that you would rent an F900 or Red or something within the same medium, then that might make more sense but even then you are in such a different price point that you should expect there to be differences. But if you are really looking at the EX-1 as a suitable alternative to a very expensive film camera, then I think you will not ever find a good match. You need to compare apples to apples.

That said, you mentioned looking at the XHA1, which I have one of, and it produces nice pretty pictures, but it is noisier than the EX-1, for what it is worth.
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Old January 16th, 2008, 02:07 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Benjamin Eckstein View Post
Um.....to say that if the EX-1 does not meet your expectations means you will have to rent Arris is a strange statement. If you were to be saying that you would rent an F900 or Red or something within the same medium, then that might make more sense but even then you are in such a different price point that you should expect there to be differences. But if you are really looking at the EX-1 as a suitable alternative to a very expensive film camera, then I think you will not ever find a good match. You need to compare apples to apples.

That said, you mentioned looking at the XHA1, which I have one of, and it produces nice pretty pictures, but it is noisier than the EX-1, for what it is worth.
Thank you Benjamin. So the XHA1 is noiser..
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Old January 16th, 2008, 02:50 PM   #10
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Please point me to noisy EX1 footage. If you're using gain, of course it will add noise, but a 0dB and -3dB it's unreal...

I own one.... And believe me I would be the first to be vocal if it was noisy...
That's for sure! In fact, this along with rez is the number one reason a lot of us bought the camera.
Everyone else has heard how vocal I was about other real issues such as vignetting. In fact, my camera still has vignetting after the adjustment. It's possibly worse.

It sounds like the EX1 is not for you. You might want to wait for NAB. Possibly Panasonic might have something to go up against the EX1.

Heck, if it beats the EX1 and the price is decent, I might buy it!
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Old January 16th, 2008, 06:53 PM   #11
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It's nothing as serious as the vindieseling at the corners
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Old January 16th, 2008, 07:33 PM   #12
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Giovanni
This is a video camera, not a film camera. It will never look like film from a film camera. And will never cost as much either.
I own 35mm, S16mm, 16mm and S8mm cameras as well as video cameras. They all make different images for different amounts of money.

If you're after pristine video then you'd want a video camera, I'd expect. If you're after the best film look, then a 35mm camera would be best. If you can afford it, there's nothing quite like sitting in a preview cinema watching your own dailies at the lab.

Or so painful, if you can't quite afford it and it's not quite perfect. But that's another story.

If you have a business or money to spend, then by all means, Super 35mm and Vision 3 is a very cool way to go, if you're ending up in projection on a big screen in a cinema.

But if not, then you're compromising anyway.

Yes, you can rent a 35mm projector and watch your dailies at home, projected on a wall. But it''s not as good as the expensive screen they have at the lab. And so on.

SO -- thinking about the little screen (i.e. up to around 72 inches, home theater system, high definition), in this arena I think the EX1 makes sense, at least in theory for me until my camera arrives.

Professionally I'm doing reality network and cable TV shows at the moment, and none of them are even HDV yet, BTW. I have high def suites at home but in a year have only ever finished a couple of my 30 or so programs a year to high definition of any description. Mostly it's been downres to DVD or SD Digi Beta for broadcast.

And of course you could shoot everything on miniDV and if the story's good enough, nobody cares about grain, rolling shutter issues, and the like.

And here's a crazy thing -- what if the story's NOT good enough? They also don't care about your grain, shutter and the like, because they'll be watching something else.

One of my good friends was responsible for the video transfers for one of those home video shows (you know, "America's Funniest Home Videos" or something like that). He has had everything from regular 8mm film to digi beta and high def camera footage thrown at him to transfer (to digi beta tape masters) for years. His favorite home video format? High 8. The last of the true analog formats. He said he loved the image quality, saturation, sharpness...

Just goes to show you -- there's no accounting for taste.

So -- video quality -- who really cares?

The program distributors care. Obviously the manufacturers care. The equipment rental houses care. The network and station quality control people care. And the people who make their money from the equipment (journalists, vendors, et al) care.

That's about it, in my experience.

Oh. And us.
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Old January 16th, 2008, 08:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Leong View Post
High 8. The last of the true analog formats. He said he loved the image quality, saturation, sharpness...
My Canon L1 was a really great camera. I once did a commercial with it that we finished on an Avid Media composer and it was really beautiful. Ahh the good old days of analog acquisition.

great post.

Vince
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Old January 16th, 2008, 09:13 PM   #14
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I own a JVC GYHD200, A CANON XH-A1 and now a EX1, the XDCAM has superior quality and less noise, excelent for Cromakeys, I just shot a bunch of footage with it, I'm finishing to shoot on friday, and begin postproduction on monday, I'll keep you posted
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Old January 16th, 2008, 09:20 PM   #15
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Can we close this topic? This thread is ridiculous.
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