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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 05:31 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Thomas View Post
John, It looks like the codec is failing with movement. This is not the EX1 codec, but the low data rate wmv file (2.47mbps) 1920x1080.
IMO, that's a very low data rate for 1920x1080.
OK guys - just to make you happy I have rendered a much larger file. This one is 270 MB instead of 70 MB.

You can download it here: http://kamrat.tv/video/Slussen1080pHQ.wmv

I think the distorsion of the womans face can be due to the slow shutter of 1/25. Ordinary motion blur.
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 08:02 PM   #17
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Thanks Ola. It looks great !
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Old January 24th, 2008, 03:27 AM   #18
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I love your work - you have great eye for framing and composition. Thanks!
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Old February 9th, 2008, 08:00 PM   #19
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Nordic low winter light

This is one of my favourite videos i have watched,as it realy capatured the athmosphere of this town Slussen.I even went & Googled it.
The Shot from ground level looking at Coffie Shop 7 also the flower stalls is great & so pin sharp that when you pause the frame it's like looking at a photograph (if you know what i mean)the details you can pick up.

The only Problem i have watching such high def.is the MOTION FLICKER when cameras pans at any sort of speed.I know this seems to be inherent with these high res.images but it was so much easier & nicer on the eyes(mine anyway) when you watch ordinary DV as it's a much smoother flow of the image, if not sharp
i guess its a tradeoff,
Thanks for posting
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Old February 10th, 2008, 05:18 PM   #20
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Thanks Mike! Glad you like it.
Slussen is actually the part of Stockholm (capitol of Sweden) where the baltic sea meets the big Lake Mälaren.
Anyway - the "flicker" or strobe effect you can see, especially during pans and tilts is not due to resolution but frame rate. I shot this piece in progressive mode capturing 25 frames per second. You can also shoot in HD using 50 interlaced frames per second (1080i) or 50 progressive frames per second (720P). That will give you the smooth look you are after.

/ola
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Old February 16th, 2008, 01:46 PM   #21
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I don't have the pmw-ex1,but i do have a sony hdr-hc3 which captures 1440x1080i @ 25f & i still see this strobing effect.I have also looked at downloaded footage in 720 & 1080 interlaced & progressive from EX1 sample clips & see it. Maby it's my monitor's refrech rate or something else ? (dell 2407WFP 1920X1200 FLAT PANEL).I also have the sony VPL-VW50 HD Projector & see it (with some slight reduction)
i'm not knocking EX1,far from it but to me a big factor in WATCHING footage is a smooth flowing picture to the eye ,not a staccato,jereky chopy image when you pan.
This is only my personnal opinion & as i say i'm only a weekend video/hobby
type
Cheers,Ola
Mike
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Old February 16th, 2008, 06:28 PM   #22
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Mike - your guess is correct. What you are experiencing is, like I tried to explain in my previous post, the result of different refresh rates on the recorded material and on you monitor.

I'll try to elaborate if I may...

To simplify I'll leave out the problems deinterlacing may cause. Let's assume that deinterlacing of interlaced clips works like it should.
Now let's also assume that there are only four refresh rates on the camera (leaving out interlaced modes and 24 fps): You can record either 25 fps, 30 fps, 50 fps or 60 fps.

25 and 30 fps will always give you a strobing film like effect due to the low number of images recorded per second. However it should not be jerky, the motion should be even but strobed. If it is jerky and irregular this is not due to the camera but to the fact that your monitor is not set upp to play back at the same or double frequency. Almost all LCD computer monitors can only show 60 Hz. This means that for all of us in europe it is not possible to get even, smooth motion on video recorded at 25 or 50 fps. 30 and 60 fps should play fine though.

To get the very smoothest motion you need to record more fps, that is 50 or 60 fps. This gives you perfectly smooth playback without any jerkyness IF you use a 60 Hz monitor for 60 fps material and a 50 Hz monitor for 50 fps material.

Incidently, I almost have the same monitors as you do. I have the Dell 2405 LCD (one generation older than yours) and the Sony VW60 (one generation newer than yours!!). The Dell can only show 60 Hz but the projector can show 50 and 60 Hz both on the HDMI and the VGA inputs. I would suspect the VW50 does the same. However you have to (!) set up the right image frequency using you graphic card application or other software otherwise it will be choppy.

So - to summarize. This is not about opinions. If you watch the material on the right monitor it is perfectly smooth. And nothing of this has anything to do with the HD-format. It is the same for SD-material. I only wished I lived in a country where the LCD monitors are using the same refresh rate as the television standard. You americans are lucky in that way.

Hope this was of any help. It is the longest thing I have ever written on this forum.
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Old February 17th, 2008, 07:20 AM   #23
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Nordic low winter light

yea Ola,
I understand the points you are making.On the refresh issue,that means everybody in euroland is stuck with this problem,shurly the lcd makers would see this large gap in the market & move in.Mabie it's not a big deal to most people.On tha point about Chopy/jerky footage(wrong choice of words) I had that problem with my old pc but when i upgraded the problem was resolved. i was thinging Ola did you try changing the region to NTSC (60i)on your EX1 then playing back on your 60i monitor,Can this be done & if so what results?
Also is there much of a difference watching 50i meterial on a 50Hz monitor
compared to watching 50i on a 60Hz monitor
Thanks for all your help,you guys realy help on these matters & i solute your intestinal fortitude.....!
Mike
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Old February 17th, 2008, 02:39 PM   #24
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Mike - I left out the interlaced bit because it adds another dimention of problems with deinterlacing for a progressive screen. However the jerkyness would be the same. The key is to watch 25 or 50 fps on a 50 Hz monitor and 30 or 60 fps on a 60 Hz monitor.
I have not tried recording with my camera at 60i but I am confident that it would look good on my Dell monitor. However - it would not be of much use to me since I live in PAL land and produce for broadcast.
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Old February 18th, 2008, 09:50 AM   #25
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What I did was lower the setup to get the blacks blacker. I find that looking on a wave form monitor there is almost never any information in the lowest part of the graph so I lower it so that the black information begins at the very floor (16). This way I get blacker blacks without loosing detail. I also did some gamma tweaking on some shots, and warmed the image up a bit.

/ola
Great work, Ola! Just a question: I get it that - by lowering the setup - you mean the dialing the PP Black parameter down, right? I'm asking because there is also the Setup parameter in the menu (not in PP), which differentiates the NTSC and PAL models but as far as I understand it, only adds 7.5% to the composite output signal.
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Old February 19th, 2008, 01:13 PM   #26
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Great work, Ola! Just a question: I get it that - by lowering the setup - you mean the dialing the PP Black parameter down, right? I'm asking because there is also the Setup parameter in the menu (not in PP), which differentiates the NTSC and PAL models but as far as I understand it, only adds 7.5% to the composite output signal.
Sorry, I was unclear... This was shot without a PP. What I meant was that I lowered "setup" in post (as it says in the Avid CC and on VTR:s). I guess you could call it black levels or black gamma as well...
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 07:48 AM   #27
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Hi Ola,
Just wanted to let you know that I saw your video a little over a year ago and it was what prompted me to buy an EX1!
Sony should be sending you royalites for your great looking video that promotes their camera.
A year of ownership with the EX1 and I'm looking at your video again and still very impressed with your aesthetic sense.
Thanks!
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Old March 3rd, 2009, 07:20 PM   #28
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I've never seen this video (thanks Juan for bringing it back to the top!).

This type of video is inspiring to me. Very nice work. (a lot like what Philip Bloom has done)

I have a new EX3 and Letus Ultimate. We've had a lot of gloomy weather around here with no green trees or flowers. I've been holding off trying to shoot any "artistic" shots until Spring, but after watching this video I feel foolish.

I do live in a smaller community without all the color and people. But it's inspired me to go out and start shooting regardless of the weather.

I've been shooting retail television commercials for 20 years, so I don't have much experience with the artistic look, but I want to learn and expand my abilities.

Ola, what do you look for when framing a shot? (just curious)
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Old March 4th, 2009, 07:42 AM   #29
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Juan, Mitchel - I just noticed that you have brought my old post to the top. Thank you for your kind words! This is actually one of the very first things I shot with my camera and it was not really intended to be particularly artistic (he says humbly).

Mitchel - I'm glad if I inspired you to get out filming the gloom. Your question about framing is a good one. But I find it really hard to put words on how I do my framing. But I'll try...

I think, apart from finding an interesting subject, there are three steps in framing well.

First I try make sure that what I want in the frame actually is in the frame. That usually means moving around a lot. Foregrounds are nice. Diagonals and lines crossing/meeting is nice. It's also refreshingly nice to shoot things straight on without diagonals in the composition. This is of course a matter of taste.

Secondly I make sure that what I DON'T want in the frame is not there. This is where I see most people make mistakes. Make sure that the edges of the frame don't cut people or things in half (unless intentional). That gives a so much cleaner shot.

And thirdly - this is the hard part - you have too balance the elements of the image into a compelling composition. There are no rules to this. Well - I guess you could use "the golden section" as a rule but you really have to "feel" what you like. The most interesting compositions may be when the shot is slightly "out of balance" with lots of air or clean space on one side but still not tipping over.

I don't know if this makes sence at all but in short - look at the image in the viewfinder and try to look at it as if you look at a painting or a photograph. Look at the lines and shapes and how they balance each other. Do not look through the lense at the objects you are filming. Be aware of the edges of the frame. Get what I mean?
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Old March 6th, 2009, 01:39 PM   #30
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Thank you Ola. Great advice! I've shown your video to a number of my peers in our local area. Maybe this weekend (if I can make the time) I'll go out and try and take some shots with your video and technique as an inspiration.

Just for your information.... I've been shooting video for 20 years now, but the majority of it for commercial use. Panning the inside of a store, showing shots of their inventory, exciting stuff like that! hehehe. But recently, with the purchase of our new camera and 35mm adapter (shallow DOF) I've gotten more of our clients interested in more artistic looking commercials. This has started to push me out of my comfort zone (always a good thing!) thus why I'm asking for advice. It was much appreciated. Thank you for taking the time. :)
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