108% at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 29th, 2008, 10:14 AM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Haiku, HI
Posts: 196
Images: 12
108%

Hi all,
I had inquired about this deep in another post but thought I might seek a definitive answer here.

What is the nature of the info being recorded in the whites above 100% on the zebras or on the brightness indicator?

Thanks
Randy Strome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29th, 2008, 10:58 AM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Posts: 3,777
The recording can retain detail up to 108%. Broadcasters often want the upper limit to be 100%. There's some flexibility with that. In USA, PBS tends to be the most restrictive.

In post you can "color correct" to lower the peak but keep the detail.

Cine Gamma settings can impact how the camera handles such peaks too. Cine 2 limits things to 100% I believe. The advantage of using this if your target is broadcast is that the Gamma curve rolls it off to some extent rather than a hard clip (in theory at least).

I really, really, really wish Sony would provide accurate examples of how Std and Cine curves work though. My ideal would be a "test scene" in which one could use to create Picture Profiles with some accuracy.
Craig Seeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29th, 2008, 11:04 AM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Palm Desert, California
Posts: 311
This camera has such great capability but it seems you need become a member of some secret society before anyone will reveal the secrets of how to use it. The Sony user manual is no more than a list of menus. Who will write the real manual?
Michael H. Stevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29th, 2008, 11:13 AM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 498
I think this is the secret society.
Eric Pascarelli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2008, 03:18 PM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 210
no real secret here, but as this camera is tagged "cinealta", it's part of the pro camera from Sony.
You will find on it almost all settings you would find on a F900, F23 or Genesis. You're not working with a consumer or prosumer camera, even if it have the same size.
If you want to use it at its best, you will have to get strong knowledge on video internals, action of gamma curves, highlights managements, codec artifacts, datarate and so on.
If you want more detailed information on some settings of the EX1, search for Sony F900 manual. You will find a lot of similarities.

You can also purchase the DVD "hands on Sony EX1".
Sebastien Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2008, 03:51 PM   #6
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: santa fe, nm
Posts: 3,264
Images: 10
In my "mapping" the PP for my EX1, I explored various EX1 gamma presets, including the 8 STD and CINE choices. I had the EX1 connected to HDRACK; and, I monitored the Waveform Monitor while observing a gray step with the camera. It seems clear to me that the difference in Gamma presets are primarily the position of the knee of the gamma curve. By adjusting the gamma LEVEL, one can move the middle gray up or down on the WFM. Gamma LEVEL seems to be, essentially a black stretch or black compress slider. I suspect the gamma presets are nothing more than various settings of gamma level and black.
Bill Ravens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2008, 04:22 PM   #7
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 4,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ravens View Post
In my "mapping" the PP for my EX1, I explored various EX1 gamma presets, including the 8 STD and CINE choices. I had the EX1 connected to HDRACK; and, I monitored the Waveform Monitor while observing a gray step with the camera. It seems clear to me that the difference in Gamma presets are primarily the position of the knee of the gamma curve. By adjusting the gamma LEVEL, one can move the middle gray up or down on the WFM. Gamma LEVEL seems to be, essentially a black stretch or black compress slider. I suspect the gamma presets are nothing more than various settings of gamma level and black.
Now you got me interested Bill; so you're saying that the EX1's direct counterpart of most other cameras (like the V1) Black Compensation (stretching/compressing) is *ANY* Gamma curve's Level, and *NOT* the Black Gamma and Black settings combined?
__________________
Sony PXW-FS7 | DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive
Piotr Wozniacki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2008, 04:37 PM   #8
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DFW area, TX
Posts: 6,108
Images: 1
Black Gamma is the equivalent of Black stretch/compress on other cameras.

-gb-
Greg Boston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2008, 04:48 PM   #9
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 4,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Boston View Post
Black Gamma is the equivalent of Black stretch/compress on other cameras.

-gb-
I'd also tend to think so, Greg. Looks like we're now having two differing opinions - I'd really appreciate clarifying this! Not having a WFM, it's good to know the theory while playing with the multitude of settings...
__________________
Sony PXW-FS7 | DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive
Piotr Wozniacki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2008, 04:52 PM   #10
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DFW area, TX
Posts: 6,108
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
I'd also tend to think so, Greg. Looks like we're now having two differing opinions - I'd really appreciate clarifying this! Not having a WFM, it's good to know the theory while playing with the multitude of settings...
Okay, let me clarify a bit, Black Gamma on the F-350 is as I stated. I don't believe Sony altered the function of that setting for the EX-1. I don't own one though, so I welcome any proof to the contrary.

-gb-
Greg Boston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2008, 04:59 PM   #11
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 4,086
Yeah...I guess a proof could be experimenting with the proper equipment, or some white paper from Sony. I guess the early EX1 adopters deserve some more than just the manual, which is written in a very simplistic way, to say the least.

Any chance of getting some info straight from Sony?
__________________
Sony PXW-FS7 | DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive
Piotr Wozniacki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2008, 07:31 PM   #12
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: santa fe, nm
Posts: 3,264
Images: 10
In my observations, BLACK sets the endpoint, BLACK GAMMA sets the tangent thru the endpoint or slope, and Black Level sets the knee position. This is a reasonable approximation of what I'm seeing on the vectorscope.
Bill Ravens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2008, 02:35 AM   #13
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 4,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ravens View Post
In my observations, BLACK sets the endpoint, BLACK GAMMA sets the tangent thru the endpoint or slope, and Black Level sets the knee position. This is a reasonable approximation of what I'm seeing on the vectorscope.
If this is so Bill, please tell me: to compress blacks, one should crank lower BLACK and BLACK GAMMA (the black knee point is seelf-explanatory). Do I take it right?
__________________
Sony PXW-FS7 | DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

Last edited by Piotr Wozniacki; January 31st, 2008 at 07:47 AM.
Piotr Wozniacki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2008, 07:32 AM   #14
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: santa fe, nm
Posts: 3,264
Images: 10
Piotor...

Compress the blacks...dial gamma LEVEL down.
Bill Ravens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2008, 07:49 AM   #15
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 4,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ravens View Post
Piotor...

Compress the blacks...dial gamma LEVEL down.
Bill,

You mean any gamma curve will compress blacks with its level down? Or just the BLACK GAMMA?
__________________
Sony PXW-FS7 | DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive
Piotr Wozniacki is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:56 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network