Picture profile for theatre filming at DVinfo.net

Greg Hawkes · February 22nd, 2008, 02:45 AM

I will be filming alongside a friend shortly to test how the EDX1 handles the varying light levels and colours of a live theatre performance of a musical.

My friend will be using two DSR300s (which I also have) and I will use one EX1.

The only two picture profiles I have set are based on Doug Jensen's suggestion for outdoor filming:
Matrix: On
White balance 5600K
Select: High Sat.
Gamma Cine 4
Black -3
Black Gamma -2
This gives me very good results outside.

I have modified PP2 but only changing the white balance to 3200K.

Any suggestions for settings for the theatre shoot?

Michael H. Stevens · February 22nd, 2008, 04:31 PM

Cine4 is best for dull scenes but with a theater and lots of dark areas you might want to stretch the blacks and not compress them more. Also as lighting is likely always changing you may consider AEB or at least do some manual measurements. Consider shutter OFF to give a bit more exposure. Don't be tempted to raise gain above +6db.

Greg Hawkes · February 23rd, 2008, 04:49 AM

H i Michael thanks for your reply

What is AEB?

When and where do you suggest I do a maual white balance.

I will not be able to see the show before it starts as I am simply there to compare how the EX1 handles the different light levels hopefully without too much manual iris adjustment and in a perfect world none.

Bill Ravens · February 23rd, 2008, 08:18 AM

I would recommend against ever using any AEB or AWB for a theatrical production. The changing gobo light colors causes fluctuations in the camera auto settings that are very distracting on the final footage.

Phil Bloom · February 23rd, 2008, 08:26 AM

I would listen to Bill!

Greg Hawkes · February 23rd, 2008, 08:41 AM

Thanks Bill and Phil

Which do you think is better.

Preset 3200K and adjust in post?

no opportunity here to do a white manual white balance as I am not attending the rehearsal . Even if I where able to which scene would you set the white balance? These type of productions often have widely different lighting sets.

Phil Bloom · February 23rd, 2008, 08:42 AM

preset 3200k

Gregor Baumann · February 26th, 2008, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael H. Stevens

Cine4 is best for dull scenes but with a theater and lots of dark areas you might want to stretch the blacks and not compress them more.

I've read in another thread, that C4 adds black stretch compared to C3 or C1. That conforms with my tests of the EX1!

Greg Hawkes · February 27th, 2008, 02:41 AM

After my own simple tests have decided to film half of test shoot with 3200K white balance preset and half with ATW.

As for Gamma. What about Cine2? Our main concern is not to overexpose the frequently overbrightly lit (from a vide cameras viewpoint) scenes.

Bill Ravens · February 27th, 2008, 08:27 AM

Cine2 is designed to limit the gamma to hard limits at IRE 100, to force broadcast legal values. Use this preset in low contrast conditions and beware of blowing out hi-lites.

Greg Hawkes · February 27th, 2008, 08:32 AM

Bil thanks for your comments.

So what would you reccomend trying for this theatre shoot bearing in mind not whanting to blow the highlights out.

Piotr Wozniacki · February 27th, 2008, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ravens

Cine2 is designed to limit the gamma to hard limits at IRE 100, to force broadcast legal values. Use this preset in low contrast conditions and beware of blowing out hi-lites.

Bill, are you sure? My common sense is telling me quite the opposite: in low contrast conditions, one of the following two approaches should be adopted:

- if potential noise from gain in stretched blacks could be a problem, crush them even further while taking full advantage of mids and highlights (use STD1)

- if the overal lighting is not so bad as to reguire using considerable gain, stretch the blacks to get more detail, still avoiding to waste the highlights (they are not dangerous, as we're talking low-ligh generally; use STD4)

CINE gammas (especially CINE2) would steal too much of the precious light!

All this IMHO; correct me if I'm wrong ;)

Michael H. Stevens · February 27th, 2008, 09:09 PM

Clarification about what I said regarding using AWB. I do tend to type too quick and not be specific enought. I DO NOT recommend leaving AEB ON. I mean you can just switch to AWB with the joystic to take a quick reading that you can program into your PP. You can do this in under 15 sec which would be no problem in the edit. ALSO when setting preset you must allow for what temp you want and not go 100% to the measure else you will as Bill said get color changes that are too much to be unnoticed. Sorry for being to brief.

February 22nd, 2008, 02:45 AM	#1
Greg Hawkes Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Basingstoke Posts: 83	Picture profile for theatre filming I will be filming alongside a friend shortly to test how the EDX1 handles the varying light levels and colours of a live theatre performance of a musical. My friend will be using two DSR300s (which I also have) and I will use one EX1. The only two picture profiles I have set are based on Doug Jensen's suggestion for outdoor filming: Matrix: On White balance 5600K Select: High Sat. Gamma Cine 4 Black -3 Black Gamma -2 This gives me very good results outside. I have modified PP2 but only changing the white balance to 3200K. Any suggestions for settings for the theatre shoot?

February 23rd, 2008, 08:26 AM	#5
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	I would listen to Bill! __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

February 23rd, 2008, 08:42 AM	#7
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	preset 3200k __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

February 22nd, 2008, 04:31 PM	#2
Michael H. Stevens Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Palm Desert, California Posts: 311	Cine4 is best for dull scenes but with a theater and lots of dark areas you might want to stretch the blacks and not compress them more. Also as lighting is likely always changing you may consider AEB or at least do some manual measurements. Consider shutter OFF to give a bit more exposure. Don't be tempted to raise gain above +6db.

February 23rd, 2008, 04:49 AM	#3
Greg Hawkes Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Basingstoke Posts: 83	H i Michael thanks for your reply What is AEB? When and where do you suggest I do a maual white balance. I will not be able to see the show before it starts as I am simply there to compare how the EX1 handles the different light levels hopefully without too much manual iris adjustment and in a perfect world none.

February 23rd, 2008, 08:18 AM	#4
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	I would recommend against ever using any AEB or AWB for a theatrical production. The changing gobo light colors causes fluctuations in the camera auto settings that are very distracting on the final footage.

February 23rd, 2008, 08:41 AM	#6
Greg Hawkes Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Basingstoke Posts: 83	Thanks Bill and Phil Which do you think is better. Preset 3200K and adjust in post? no opportunity here to do a white manual white balance as I am not attending the rehearsal . Even if I where able to which scene would you set the white balance? These type of productions often have widely different lighting sets.

February 27th, 2008, 02:41 AM	#9
Greg Hawkes Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Basingstoke Posts: 83	After my own simple tests have decided to film half of test shoot with 3200K white balance preset and half with ATW. As for Gamma. What about Cine2? Our main concern is not to overexpose the frequently overbrightly lit (from a vide cameras viewpoint) scenes.

February 27th, 2008, 08:27 AM	#10
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Cine2 is designed to limit the gamma to hard limits at IRE 100, to force broadcast legal values. Use this preset in low contrast conditions and beware of blowing out hi-lites.

February 27th, 2008, 08:32 AM	#11
Greg Hawkes Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Basingstoke Posts: 83	Bil thanks for your comments. So what would you reccomend trying for this theatre shoot bearing in mind not whanting to blow the highlights out.

February 27th, 2008, 09:09 PM	#13
Michael H. Stevens Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Palm Desert, California Posts: 311	Clarification about what I said regarding using AWB. I do tend to type too quick and not be specific enought. I DO NOT recommend leaving AEB ON. I mean you can just switch to AWB with the joystic to take a quick reading that you can program into your PP. You can do this in under 15 sec which would be no problem in the edit. ALSO when setting preset you must allow for what temp you want and not go 100% to the measure else you will as Bill said get color changes that are too much to be unnoticed. Sorry for being to brief.