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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old March 2nd, 2008, 03:20 AM   #1
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Windows XP File Structure question

After self-inflicted accidental deletion problems last weekend, I'm now having trouble with the Browsing software.

I think it may be connected with accessing files on an external Hard Drive, but while I'm shuffling files around to make space on some internal drives, could I confirm I've copied the files from the SxS cards properly (I can't find help in the Help files!)

I've shot a single job onto effectively 4 different SxS cards. including a couple of times where a shot continued from one slot to the other.

When I copy the files from these cards, do I copy everything into a single BPAV folder, to enable the Browsing software to join everything up?

Thanks for any clarification.
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Old March 2nd, 2008, 04:02 AM   #2
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Its new to me too. I think each card should be kept in a seperate designated folder and then accessed by the browser. Because every BPAV is the same they must not be mixed up or you will overwrite material. From what I gather every BPAV from a card must go into its own named folder and that will be its home for ever. Dog Jensen's Vortex Media DVD spells it out in words of one syllable and means you have a good chance of not getting mixed up.
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Old March 2nd, 2008, 04:15 AM   #3
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Thanks for the reply Bruce - I just found some info on the original CDRom and am trying to make sense of what should be easy ..... if it's not clear, I'll have another look at Doug Jensen's DVD which I have.
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Old March 2nd, 2008, 08:00 AM   #4
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Even though the directory structure is the same on each card, if you copy each card to a different folder how will the Clip Browser find the clip to be joined?

I think you should copy each card to the same folder. The files themselves should not get overwritten as each clip is assigned a unique filename(number). Then with everything in the same folder, Clip Browser can find and join clips spread across different cards.

Okay, that is my take on how things should (might) work. I don't know for sure and would like for someone who has actually done this to clarify the situitation.
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Old March 2nd, 2008, 09:10 AM   #5
 
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I've finally deduced that I need to use the Sony Clip Browser for everything related to SxS card file management: copying, deleting, and exporting. Copying anything in windows explorer won't copy the BPAV file without corrupting it. Erasing from the SxS card with Explorer will corrupt the SxS card so the EX1 tells me I need to "restructure" it.
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Old March 2nd, 2008, 12:08 PM   #6
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It's vital that any changes you make to the content of the BPAV folders is only done using the clip browser. Failure to do so will result in a corrupted file structure and can lead to all kinds of issues later.
The best way to manage and archive the folders is to copy the entire folder into a new folder. The new folder you can name whatever you want.

For example I would create a folder called "Dog Show" then inside that folder create a folder called "card 1". Copy the entire BPAV folder into "card 1" so that when I open "card 1" inside it you will find the "BPAV" folder. I would then make a new "card" folder for each of you BPAV folders.

Then when you navigate to the "Dog Show" folder using clip browser it show all the sub folders. As you open the folders for each card Clip browser will find any clips that have been spanned across multiple cards and join them automatically.
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Old March 2nd, 2008, 06:14 PM   #7
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Thanks Alister.

I did exactly what you described - had four folders named 1,2,3 & 4, into which I copied the contents of each of the four cards - namely the BPAV folder and all folders within.

When accessing the clips in the bottom part of the browser and exporting them to MXF format, however, it did NOT automatically join up clips which spanned different cards, in fact it threw up a warning message that there was a part only of a take.

So, there is a missing link somewhere, and I think it's something to do with combining files, using the Browser software as you say. The directions on the original CD rom I found difficult to follow - they kept referring to sections on other pages, then those sections themselves referred to other sections....

If I ruled the world there would be a paragraph which said simply:

When you have clips which span across different cards, this is what you do:
Step 1 xxxx
Step 2 xxx
Step 3 xxx
Step 4 xxx
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 07:26 AM   #8
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I'm sure somebody out there must have successfully combined clips that spanned two cards. But until they post and tell us exactly how to do it, I guess I'll have to run some tests and see what really works. Unfortunately, I am separated from my camera for another month, so my testing will have to wait.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 07:38 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Wright View Post
When accessing the clips in the bottom part of the browser and exporting them to MXF format, however, it did NOT automatically join up clips which spanned different cards, in fact it threw up a warning message that there was a part only of a take.

So, there is a missing link somewhere, and I think it's something to do with combining files, using the Browser software as you say.
I think the missing link is simple: when accessing split clips, you need to fist copy them into a selected location on your HDD (the Browser will then merge the split parts together), and only export from the combined, sigle mp4 clip (still held as separate files in separate subfolders under the target BPAV direcory) in the second stage - only then wil a single, full-lenth mxf clip/file be created.
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Last edited by Piotr Wozniacki; March 3rd, 2008 at 08:12 AM.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 08:15 AM   #10
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Sorry Piotr, but it's not quite that simple.
Everything seems to need to be in a BPAV folder, so when you say "when accessing split clips, you need to first copy them into a selected location on your HDD", please specify exactly WHICH files need to be copied, and into which BPAV folder?

I suspect that whatever combining takes place, it must be done with the Browser software, not just by copying in Windows explorer.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 08:33 AM   #11
 
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ANY access, whatsoever, of the SxS card, short of browsing there with Explorer, will corrupt the SxS card. Copy, export, delete of files on the SxScard, by necessity, needs to be done with the Sony Clip Browser. In the SCB, copying from the Sxs card to the hard drive will copy that file and the entire BPAV directory and sub-folders.Any further file copying will move that file into the BPAV folder structure you created in the first copy. You can't rename the BPAV folder on your HD, but, you can store it in any master folder title you wish.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 08:48 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Wright View Post
Sorry Piotr, but it's not quite that simple.
Everything seems to need to be in a BPAV folder, so when you say "when accessing split clips, you need to first copy them into a selected location on your HDD", please specify exactly WHICH files need to be copied, and into which BPAV folder?

I suspect that whatever combining takes place, it must be done with the Browser software, not just by copying in Windows explorer.
Exactly Peter - when I say "copy", I mean the Clip Browser "Copy" function, not the Windows Explorer copy! In the Clip Browser I select all clips on the mounted card (they all may be just chunks of a long take - created either due to the FAT32, 4GB filesize limitation, or the SxS card capacity limit exceeded), select Copy and point it to a prepared directory on my PC's HDD. Then I mount another card and repeat the Copy process (to the same directory; not any separate subfolder!). See the attached dir tree as resulting in the Windows Explorer below; I copied two card's worth into a directory called "Span test". The clip D01_003 consisted of 4 chunks; the first 3 were created because of the FAT32 limitation, and the third was additionally span across two SxS cards.

It creates the right structure automatically, and displays the combined files as a single clip in the other Clip browser's pane. Then, and only then, I can select it as a whole, and export the seamlesly merged mxf.
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Last edited by Piotr Wozniacki; March 3rd, 2008 at 10:00 AM.
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Old April 4th, 2008, 12:53 PM   #13
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Pmw Ex1

All your meesages have been of great value to me as I have just bought the PMW EX1, can someone tell me; I am having probems using Clip Browser, I have been traying to access the clips directly from the camera as I have'nt bought the USB card reader as yet - everytime I try to read from the cards in the camera it seems to take forever, is this because the camera is not powerful enough to read through the USB to the PC?

Appreciate your thoughts before I spend another chunk of money!

Regards
Mike
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Old April 4th, 2008, 01:22 PM   #14
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It certainly is not the camera being not powerful enough (assuming it's functioning properly). USB connection on some computers can be slow; depending on some HW/SW conflicts, it may revert from High speed (USB2.0) to the crappy USB1.1 (or even 1.0) protocol.

Very difficult to diagnose remotely; try to use the direct USB sockets on your PC mainboard, and not those in the front panel.

Ultimately, buy a PCIe->ExpressCard adapter; it can be several times faster that even USB2.0 at High Speed.
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Old April 4th, 2008, 04:27 PM   #15
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Browser

Many thanks, I have it conected to a PCi express usb card, can I ask when you open the Browser software does it take a few seconds to open correctly, it seems very slow?

The clips I aim to import are quite long, some are probebly 25mins, could that be the issue?

Thanks
Mike
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