sd dvd from ex1 : horrible - Page 3 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 10th, 2008, 05:25 PM   #31
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 2,222
[QUOTE=Adam Forgione;840092]okay im starting to get the down convert to
the picture on all tests looks the best on the LG ($400 tv) - the bravia surprisingly looked the worse QUOTE]

The Bravia line is known for its soft upscaling. I picked up the 52" 1080p at a good price just as stores were clearing their inventory in August 2007 for the new models. Sony announced some new models in fall 2007 (some have been in stores for a couple of months), but I haven't confirmed if they are any better at upscaling. I think you have to rely on your DVD player to upscale for the Bravia.
Gints Klimanis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2008, 06:15 PM   #32
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Viersen, Germany
Posts: 120
Sooo, here's the link.
http://rapidshare.com/files/98564166...Hcenc.m2v.html

sd dvd from ex1 : not horrible ;)


regards Dennis
Dennis Schmitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11th, 2008, 03:12 AM   #33
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 234
Downconversion on XBox 360

I just downloaded some clips around here (Renaissance festival, Woods, Aquarium and some others). I loaded them onto my thumb drive and plugged it into my XBox 360 (a DVD-R also works equally as well.)

Viewing them on a 32" Sony Trinitron TV, the SD quality of the EX1 is absolutely gorgeous! Lifelike colors...sharp resolution. It easily matches HD-originated footage from my Korn: Live from the Other Side DVD (the only other DVD I've tested so far...I recently purchased the system and haven't messed around with it much).

I've also viewed the aquarium footage on a 57" HDTV (projection) and it looks ALMOST as good as broadcast Discovery Channel stuff. And that's coming from files made for the internet...I wonder how it'd look at higher bitrates? This camera is absolutely amazing at its price point.

From that I extract that it is the software encoders that are not doing proper downconversion. If the XBox can handle it well in realtime downconversion then it's either the software you're using is poo (I always hated Compressor which I know a lot of you are using...it never looked as good as my Canopus Procoder conversions) or you're not using the proper settings to get good footage. If I knew what techniques Microsoft used in their Windows Media/Quicktime H264 downconversion schematics I'd tell you! But be rest assured it is not a waste of time to shoot in HD with this camera. As another user said earlier we are in a transitional period with all this HD stuff and it's an issue that has yet to be ironed out.

I'd like to say more but I'm going back downstairs to watch that lovely EX1 footage again!
Adam Reuter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11th, 2008, 07:23 AM   #34
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Posts: 3,778
Adam, Compressor 3 is a major improvement over previous versions. It's ability to down convert, change frame rates, etc. is quite good in most respects. The one area I have issue with is line twitter on certain shoots which is likely due to the source resolution and that it's not being intelligently blurred (or equivalent).

I've also done test encodes in Episode Pro which, according to most reviews is competitive with Procoder if not Rhozet. I can the same results with Episode although I continue to experiment. Episode Pro is far more "tweakable" than Compressor. Episode Pro (and it's network version, Engine) are broadcast level apps. I've used it to create MPEG2 Program and Transport streams for broadcast and it does an excellent job.

I do think software compression apps in general probably have not been optimized to handle some aspects of HD to SD downconversions.

Keep in mind that, in my experience, there is only certain shots that Compressor and apparently Episode Pro are not handling. Most look great. It's thin horizontal lines that twitter when the picture moves up/down. The same shots look fine stationary.
Craig Seeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11th, 2008, 08:31 AM   #35
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Falmouth, England
Posts: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Reuter View Post
I loaded them onto my thumb drive and plugged it into my XBox 360...
Viewing them on a 32" Sony Trinitron TV, the SD quality of the EX1 is absolutely gorgeous! Lifelike colors...sharp resolution. It easily matches HD-originated footage from my Korn:
I wonder if you record Xbox 360 HD footage through RGB out into a DVD recorder and then compare the mpeg2 files from the software conversions mentioned how it will compare.

Dennis can you give me more details on your latest workflow, I also have a cinema craft encoder will this be better or worse than HCenc? It has been a while since I used it so I am very rusty in that sort of workflow.
__________________
Premier Pro CS5, Sony PMW-EX1, Miller Solo DS20 tripod
Steve Sykes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11th, 2008, 08:52 AM   #36
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Viersen, Germany
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Sykes View Post
Dennis can you give me more details on your latest workflow, I also have a cinema craft encoder will this be better or worse than HCenc? It has been a while since I used it so I am very rusty in that sort of workflow.
You can resize the m2v or m2t files with Virtualdubmod + smartresize.
The resulting .avi file can be encoded with cce of course.

But I don't know whether it looks better or worse than Hcenc.
Hcenc is free. It does offer better quality than squeeze (sharp with artifacts) or even procoder (very soft).


regards Dennis
Dennis Schmitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11th, 2008, 09:16 AM   #37
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: santa fe, nm
Posts: 3,264
Images: 10
Using virtualdub resize filter:
set to Lanzos
Tick the "Interlaced" button
Even if your footage is progressive. It seems counter-intuitive, but trust me on this 'til you try it.
Bill Ravens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11th, 2008, 09:21 AM   #38
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Las Vegas, NV United States
Posts: 361
Just burned a SD DVD with the mv2 file Dennis shared, using DVD Studio Pro from FCS2 - looks like HD footage even when played back on a SD 4:3 50" TV... albeit letterboxed!
__________________
Lonnie Bell
mamas boy productions
Las Vegas, NV
Lonnie Bell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11th, 2008, 09:53 AM   #39
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Viersen, Germany
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ravens View Post
Using virtualdub resize filter:
set to Lanzos
Tick the "Interlaced" button
Even if your footage is progressive. It seems counter-intuitive, but trust me on this 'til you try it.
Virtualdubmod is my favourite.
Contains nice filters, easy interface and is open-source.
I'll try your suggestion later.
(have you seen the .m2v file? created with virtualdubmod and hcenc?)


regards Dennis
Dennis Schmitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11th, 2008, 10:06 AM   #40
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Viersen, Germany
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Schmitz View Post
I'll try your suggestion later.
regards Dennis


UGLY!!!
Looks like a very bad deinterlaced video with this filter applied (tested with HDV 25f Canon A1).


regards Dennis
Dennis Schmitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11th, 2008, 12:20 PM   #41
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: santa fe, nm
Posts: 3,264
Images: 10
weird...works beautifully for me. but I shoot real progressive, no faux.
could it be that frame mode on the canon?
Bill Ravens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11th, 2008, 12:36 PM   #42
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Viersen, Germany
Posts: 120
It looks very unnatural even with EX1 25p 1920x1080 material.
Horizontal lines get stretched and are flickering during pans.


regards Dennis
Dennis Schmitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11th, 2008, 03:49 PM   #43
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, PA USA
Posts: 61
@Dennis:

Thanks for posting that clip! I would agree that it looks better than either of the SD clips I rendered. (At least on my 42" LCD).

I do notice some differences in color... I haven't yet figured out which looks closer to the original HD. My grading was crap, as well, which certainly didn't help things.

I still think that my AVI scaled in After Effects (before being exported as MPEG via Adobe Media Encoder), looks the best. However, if I can't maintain that quality across the workflow onto DVD, your solution may be best.

There really are only two places where the process can go wrong:

1. Scaling - it seems that Premiere Pro, AE and VirtualDub generate similar results, with VirtualDub maintaining the highest quality.

2. MPEG encoding - Here is seems that your process beats Adobe Media Encoder. Kind of frustrating, given what CS3 costs compared to what these other tools cost... :-)

@Adam... did you get a chance to test the files that have been provided to you, per your request?
Jon Carlson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11th, 2008, 03:57 PM   #44
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Viersen, Germany
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Carlson View Post
I do notice some differences in color... I haven't yet figured out which looks closer to the original HD. My grading was crap, as well, which certainly didn't help things.
I don't know wether I should downgrade color to BT.601 or not, but it looks different then...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Carlson View Post
I still think that my AVI scaled in After Effects (before being exported as MPEG via Adobe Media Encoder), looks the best. However, if I can't maintain that quality across the workflow onto DVD, your solution may be best.
AEs (at least V.7) scaler is much worse compared to smartresize filter. Tried Avid Liquid and Procoder 3, too, but the results were pretty bad - esspecially the graphics in the beginning ;)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Carlson View Post
There really are only two places where the process can go wrong:

1. Scaling - it seems that Premiere Pro, AE and VirtualDub generate similar results, with VirtualDub maintaining the highest quality.
I don't know about Premiere (the video you provided scaled with Premiere? was not usable in my opinion.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Carlson View Post
2. MPEG encoding - Here is seems that your process beats Adobe Media Encoder. Kind of frustrating, given what CS3 costs compared to what these other tools cost... :-)
Hcenc is free, fast and produces very clean video.
The .m2v file didn't look much worse compared to the uncompressed avi I created with Virtualdubmod.


regards Dennis
Dennis Schmitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11th, 2008, 05:21 PM   #45
New Boot
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 9
Canopus Forum Repost

This is a repost from the canopus forum dealing with this subject. It is a very hot topic there as well. It is a step by step that starts with a Canopus HQ avi file as the source. Any NLE high quality barely compressed file should work as the input file to this process! It uses free tools for conversion and has had great feedback so far!

Mark

http://ediusforum.grassvalley.com/fo...ead.php?t=5141
Mark Miner is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:44 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network