Strange Noise HDMI but not Component?! at DVinfo.net

Greg Voevodsky · April 8th, 2008, 12:25 PM

I have a strange problem. When I connect my EX1 via component to my Panasonic 1080p plasma and watch my beach footage - it is very clean with little noise.

However, when I transfer it to final cut pro and play it back via HDMI to the same plasma (with the same TV settings - NORMAL - same sharpeness, etc) it is has a lot more noise - dancing in both the beach and sky during daylight shots.

So - I am a bit confused... as - isn't it the exact same file from the memory card to FCP? OR is their real transcoding going on here. I have not tried Pro Rez yet.

Also, HDMI is suppose to be digital and cleaner than component?!

Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks

Dennis Joseph · April 8th, 2008, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Voevodsky

I have a strange problem. When I connect my EX1 via component to my Panasonic 1080p plasma and watch my beach footage - it is very clean with little noise.

However, when I transfer it to final cut pro and play it back via HDMI to the same plasma (with the same TV settings - NORMAL - same sharpeness, etc) it is has a lot more noise - dancing in both the beach and sky during daylight shots.

So - I am a bit confused... as - isn't it the exact same file from the memory card to FCP? OR is their real transcoding going on here. I have not tried Pro Rez yet.

Also, HDMI is suppose to be digital and cleaner than component?!

Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks

I'm going to take a guess and say it may be a video card issue?

Steven Thomas · April 8th, 2008, 12:38 PM

Is it your typical video type noise?

Is there a difference in your black level when viewing HDMI?
You can test this by looking at the pluge on your cameras color bars.

I've used HDMI on the EX1. It's real cleaner than the component out.

Paul Newman · April 8th, 2008, 01:46 PM

Could you explain how you got HDMI out of the EX1 - I can't find such a connection, it must be well hidden indeed.

Paul

Dennis Joseph · April 8th, 2008, 02:00 PM

Is this HDMI our from a mac or straight from the camera?

Benjamin Eckstein · April 8th, 2008, 02:34 PM

He says its from FCP, not his camera.

Greg Voevodsky · April 8th, 2008, 03:44 PM

yes, HDMI is right from final cut pro from the new mac book pro.
I did record and playback colorbars from the camera and there was NO visible noise. So, its not the connection or RF interfearence.

I have the playback at the best settings. Is a rendered version even better?
I noticed when I lowered the settings to good for playback that the same type of noise was even more obvious.

How do you connect the EX1 to HDMI without some converter from the SDI out?

Thomas, Im not sure how to compare the black levels.

Any other suggestions or tests for me to try?
I'm new to FCP (an old Avid user).

Craig Seeman · April 8th, 2008, 04:10 PM

I've played component out to my 46" 1080p monitor as well as DVI to HDMI from my Mac. EX1 video from Mac via HDMI to monitor is much cleaner that camera component out.

Chris Soucy · April 8th, 2008, 04:20 PM

How have you got your monitor (your work monitor, not the plasma) connected to the Mac? (I'm not a Mac bod so not up with these things).

Does the monitor take HD?

If it's a DVI connect and does HD, may I suggest you take the DVI out from the Mac, use a DVI - HDMI converter plug and connect it to the Plasma.

Then take the HDMI out and using the same type of converter, connect it to your work screen.

If the noise moves from the Plasma to the Work screen, you have an HDMI issue with the Mac.

If the noise stays with the Plasma, you have an HDMI issue with the Plasma.

If the noise dissapears, congratulations, you now have the biggest Mac monitor on the planet.

If the Plasma won't work with the DVI - HDMI converter plug (a lot don't), guess it's back to the drawing board.

CS

Steven Thomas · April 8th, 2008, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Voevodsky

How do you connect the EX1 to HDMI without some converter from the SDI out?

You don't -
You have to use a SDI to DVI/HDMI converter such as BlackMagic HDLINK.
This works fine and is clean.

Greg Voevodsky · April 8th, 2008, 05:45 PM

Chris, thanks for your suggestions...

I just connected my laptop to a new 30inch HD Mac Monitor (with a different cable) - however, it has the same noise... hmmmm

So - am I missing something. How can the camera playing off the original flash card look so much cleaner on my plasma than the same file copied and imported into FCP. I have the 'best' video settings set for RT and the sequence timeline and clips are still in the native XDcam 1080p 30fps.

I'm guessing (or hoping) this is a playback quality issue.
(However, I do not see any noise with the colorbars that I recorded and imported from the camera).
Any other ideas for figuring out this are greatly appreciated.
Thank you to everyone's suggestions and time so far.

Chris Soucy · April 8th, 2008, 06:25 PM

Greg,

Is this laptop the same machine you ingested the EX data into? I can't figure out how many machines we're dealing with here.

How did you connect it to the new 30" screen? As the DVI monitor or the HDMI external?

You never said just what this video looks like played full screen on your Monitor. Is it clean there?

Basically, is it bad on everything whether DVI or HDMI?

CS

Daniel Browning · April 8th, 2008, 06:38 PM

If you pull a pristine still, does it have noise? Can you control your display's sharpening or noise reduction? (Sharpening will make noise stand out more.)

Many displays have different settings for at least one of the digital inputs, such as reduced overscan and no "post-processing" (sharpening, noise reduction). Or perhaps the pulldown detection on your TV's component port is broken, so the image is softened with deinterlacing, hiding the noise.

Just a few ideas for you.

Greg Voevodsky · April 8th, 2008, 10:00 PM

Chris,

Yes, the newest and best Apple HD laptop is the same machine that I'm bringing in my EX footage. I'm using Apple's mini DVI port out to the 2nd monitor and/or a 2nd cable dvi to hdmi for the plasma. I see noise on both. It is only when I connect the camera directly to the plasma via component is it cleaner - which makes me think its a setting in FCP.

The sharpening setting on the plasma (for both the camera to plasma via component and the laptop to plasma) are the same. I made sure in the menu since the defaults have a +15 sharpening.

Daniel,

In FCP - I can see the noise when it is paused in a still frame in both the plasma and the 30 inch LCD monitor.

I'm not sure how I would export a still from the camera to compare it to one in FCP. Since I am not a FCP expert (new from AVid) - I hope its FCP or that its previews are just not as good as a full rendered export. I guess I will try that tomorrow. Any other suggestions are welcome.

Again, my settings are set to best in RT (real time) and the XDcam 1080p 30fps in the sequence. One question should it be 29.97 or actaul 30fps as I see in the advance settings. For DVD and broadcast it should be 29.97, right?

Only for online, the internet - or some 30 to 24 conversion to film - should it be 30. Is that correct? Thanks again everyone.

April 8th, 2008, 12:25 PM	#1
Greg Voevodsky Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Portola Valley Posts: 105	Strange Noise HDMI but not Component?! I have a strange problem. When I connect my EX1 via component to my Panasonic 1080p plasma and watch my beach footage - it is very clean with little noise. However, when I transfer it to final cut pro and play it back via HDMI to the same plasma (with the same TV settings - NORMAL - same sharpeness, etc) it is has a lot more noise - dancing in both the beach and sky during daylight shots. So - I am a bit confused... as - isn't it the exact same file from the memory card to FCP? OR is their real transcoding going on here. I have not tried Pro Rez yet. Also, HDMI is suppose to be digital and cleaner than component?! Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks

April 8th, 2008, 01:46 PM	#4
Paul Newman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Agua Blanca Ibiza Posts: 305	Could you explain how you got HDMI out of the EX1 - I can't find such a connection, it must be well hidden indeed. Paul __________________ Another Sunny Day in Ibiza

April 8th, 2008, 04:20 PM	#9
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,682 Images: 18	Hi Greg............. How have you got your monitor (your work monitor, not the plasma) connected to the Mac? (I'm not a Mac bod so not up with these things). Does the monitor take HD? If it's a DVI connect and does HD, may I suggest you take the DVI out from the Mac, use a DVI - HDMI converter plug and connect it to the Plasma. Then take the HDMI out and using the same type of converter, connect it to your work screen. If the noise moves from the Plasma to the Work screen, you have an HDMI issue with the Mac. If the noise stays with the Plasma, you have an HDMI issue with the Plasma. If the noise dissapears, congratulations, you now have the biggest Mac monitor on the planet. If the Plasma won't work with the DVI - HDMI converter plug (a lot don't), guess it's back to the drawing board. CS

April 8th, 2008, 06:25 PM	#12
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,682 Images: 18	Hi again.... Greg, Is this laptop the same machine you ingested the EX data into? I can't figure out how many machines we're dealing with here. How did you connect it to the new 30" screen? As the DVI monitor or the HDMI external? You never said just what this video looks like played full screen on your Monitor. Is it clean there? Basically, is it bad on everything whether DVI or HDMI? CS

April 8th, 2008, 12:38 PM	#3
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Is it your typical video type noise? Is there a difference in your black level when viewing HDMI? You can test this by looking at the pluge on your cameras color bars. I've used HDMI on the EX1. It's real cleaner than the component out.

April 8th, 2008, 02:00 PM	#5
Dennis Joseph Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 206	Is this HDMI our from a mac or straight from the camera?

April 8th, 2008, 02:34 PM	#6
Benjamin Eckstein Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 380 Images: 1	He says its from FCP, not his camera.

April 8th, 2008, 03:44 PM	#7
Greg Voevodsky Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Portola Valley Posts: 105	yes, HDMI is right from final cut pro from the new mac book pro. I did record and playback colorbars from the camera and there was NO visible noise. So, its not the connection or RF interfearence. I have the playback at the best settings. Is a rendered version even better? I noticed when I lowered the settings to good for playback that the same type of noise was even more obvious. How do you connect the EX1 to HDMI without some converter from the SDI out? Thomas, Im not sure how to compare the black levels. Any other suggestions or tests for me to try? I'm new to FCP (an old Avid user).

April 8th, 2008, 04:10 PM	#8
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	I've played component out to my 46" 1080p monitor as well as DVI to HDMI from my Mac. EX1 video from Mac via HDMI to monitor is much cleaner that camera component out.

April 8th, 2008, 05:45 PM	#11
Greg Voevodsky Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Portola Valley Posts: 105	Chris, thanks for your suggestions... I just connected my laptop to a new 30inch HD Mac Monitor (with a different cable) - however, it has the same noise... hmmmm So - am I missing something. How can the camera playing off the original flash card look so much cleaner on my plasma than the same file copied and imported into FCP. I have the 'best' video settings set for RT and the sequence timeline and clips are still in the native XDcam 1080p 30fps. I'm guessing (or hoping) this is a playback quality issue. (However, I do not see any noise with the colorbars that I recorded and imported from the camera). Any other ideas for figuring out this are greatly appreciated. Thank you to everyone's suggestions and time so far.

April 8th, 2008, 06:38 PM	#13
Daniel Browning Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 949	If you pull a pristine still, does it have noise? Can you control your display's sharpening or noise reduction? (Sharpening will make noise stand out more.) Many displays have different settings for at least one of the digital inputs, such as reduced overscan and no "post-processing" (sharpening, noise reduction). Or perhaps the pulldown detection on your TV's component port is broken, so the image is softened with deinterlacing, hiding the noise. Just a few ideas for you.

April 8th, 2008, 10:00 PM	#14
Greg Voevodsky Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Portola Valley Posts: 105	Chris, Yes, the newest and best Apple HD laptop is the same machine that I'm bringing in my EX footage. I'm using Apple's mini DVI port out to the 2nd monitor and/or a 2nd cable dvi to hdmi for the plasma. I see noise on both. It is only when I connect the camera directly to the plasma via component is it cleaner - which makes me think its a setting in FCP. The sharpening setting on the plasma (for both the camera to plasma via component and the laptop to plasma) are the same. I made sure in the menu since the defaults have a +15 sharpening. Daniel, In FCP - I can see the noise when it is paused in a still frame in both the plasma and the 30 inch LCD monitor. I'm not sure how I would export a still from the camera to compare it to one in FCP. Since I am not a FCP expert (new from AVid) - I hope its FCP or that its previews are just not as good as a full rendered export. I guess I will try that tomorrow. Any other suggestions are welcome. Again, my settings are set to best in RT (real time) and the XDcam 1080p 30fps in the sequence. One question should it be 29.97 or actaul 30fps as I see in the advance settings. For DVD and broadcast it should be 29.97, right? Only for online, the internet - or some 30 to 24 conversion to film - should it be 30. Is that correct? Thanks again everyone.