EX format and Discovery HD broadcast std

Alister Chapman · May 11th, 2008, 02:04 AM

Discovery have 3 tiers. Gold is the best and is HDCAM, HDCAM SR and is expected for drama and high end docs. Silver is next, normally HD Docs and Factual and is XDCAM HD, DVCPRO HD (Not HVX200) and Bronze includes HDV and HVX200 but you cannot use Bronze for more than 20% 0f the entire production.

If your trying to choose between the XL-H1 and EX3 purely on image quality then there is no contest. The H1 (which I have owned and did really like) is HDV and the extra 10Mb and VBR encoding make a massive difference, especially in post production. Also you can fit a far wider range of lenses to the EX3 thanks to the fact that the hand grip doesn't get in the way as it does on the H1 and the 1/2 inch sensors.

Simon Denny · May 11th, 2008, 02:43 AM

Hi Alister,
What are some models for the HDCAM, HDCAM SR & XDCAM HD, DVCPRO HD that i could look at in the Sony range.

Cheers
Simon

Bruce Rawlings · May 11th, 2008, 04:11 AM

HDCAM SR is really very big boys toys. HDCAM is realistically priced as it is really the HD equivalent to Digibeta. Normal cameras would be 790/750/730. If editing would need a feeder for the editing system such as HDW1800 if you are going to lay back to tape, still big bucks! Makes the EX3/EX1 look attractive. I think real XDcam HD is a good and sensible way to go as you do not need a VT machine.

Brian Drysdale · May 11th, 2008, 05:30 AM

Usually the BBC commissions rather than buys in documentaries, so you'll have the budget to shoot on which ever format they require. It's a pretty tough business getting a commission, which, if you're a newcomer, can involve working with an established producer - yes, they're after material to put in as proposals. However, you'll need to have done something that demonstrates your talent (or be be a relative).

Currently, I'd say the BBC regards their HD channel as a flagship, so it's going for high end content. As they create more HD channels they'll be wanting more lower budget programming, however, by that time HDV will not be in the picture.

There's no problem with HDV or the EX1 on SD programmes. However, the Sony PDW 700 seems to be the minimum for BBC HD, although perhaps the Scarlet might pass next year.
http://www.sony.co.uk/res/attachment...3315636944.pdf

Glen Vandermolen · May 11th, 2008, 06:53 AM

Alister, thanks for the info. Are these tiers for a European Discovery HD channel (if there is one)? If so, I am wondering if there are separate standards for the US version.

Steve Harryman · May 11th, 2008, 01:58 PM

Alistar and crew,

Thanks for your experience. Sounds like I should realistically shoot for SD programming.

Ed Kukla · May 11th, 2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Harryman

I am finding conflicting information regarding the EX format meeting the HD broadcast standards of Discovery HD. Nigel's review mentions the EX format meets the full broadcast standard of Discovery and others----yet Discovery.ca said they don't accept the XDCAM EX format at 35mbps, but they do accept the XDCAM HD format at 35mbps. Has anyone else heard the bottom line on the EX series for broadcast?

Discovery.ca is independant from Discovery US.

Bruce Rawlings · May 12th, 2008, 01:18 AM

I am sure that the broadcasters have not thought about it yet. From the quality of some of the stuff they put out I am sure the EX1/EX3 will get used without a problem.
As someone else has posted, a few years down the line and they will be running anything they can get cheap as the viewers will have gone to surf the net for what they really want to see not what a jumped up commissioning editor thinks they should watch.

Brian Drysdale · May 12th, 2008, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Rawlings

I am sure that the broadcasters have not thought about it yet. From the quality of some of the stuff they put out I am sure the EX1/EX3 will get used without a problem.
As someone else has posted, a few years down the line and they will be running anything they can get cheap as the viewers will have gone to surf the net for what they really want to see not what a jumped up commissioning editor thinks they should watch.

Unfortunately, there will always be a limitation on bandwidth on HD channels (especially if you want lower compression), so there will be a selection process.

The problem that internet distribution has to work out is how you realise a return on your investment in a production. The porn industry does it, but I suspect most people in the forum won't be using that particular model and really want higher production values. Although, I do know one businessman who used their selling techniques for his on-line business.

May 11th, 2008, 02:04 AM	#16
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Discovery have 3 tiers. Gold is the best and is HDCAM, HDCAM SR and is expected for drama and high end docs. Silver is next, normally HD Docs and Factual and is XDCAM HD, DVCPRO HD (Not HVX200) and Bronze includes HDV and HVX200 but you cannot use Bronze for more than 20% 0f the entire production. If your trying to choose between the XL-H1 and EX3 purely on image quality then there is no contest. The H1 (which I have owned and did really like) is HDV and the extra 10Mb and VBR encoding make a massive difference, especially in post production. Also you can fit a far wider range of lenses to the EX3 thanks to the fact that the hand grip doesn't get in the way as it does on the H1 and the 1/2 inch sensors. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

May 11th, 2008, 04:11 AM	#18
Bruce Rawlings Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Cardiff, Wales, UK Posts: 410	HDCAM SR is really very big boys toys. HDCAM is realistically priced as it is really the HD equivalent to Digibeta. Normal cameras would be 790/750/730. If editing would need a feeder for the editing system such as HDW1800 if you are going to lay back to tape, still big bucks! Makes the EX3/EX1 look attractive. I think real XDcam HD is a good and sensible way to go as you do not need a VT machine. Last edited by Bruce Rawlings; May 11th, 2008 at 05:07 AM.

May 11th, 2008, 02:43 AM	#17
Simon Denny Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,409	Hi Alister, What are some models for the HDCAM, HDCAM SR & XDCAM HD, DVCPRO HD that i could look at in the Sony range. Cheers Simon

May 11th, 2008, 05:30 AM	#19
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Usually the BBC commissions rather than buys in documentaries, so you'll have the budget to shoot on which ever format they require. It's a pretty tough business getting a commission, which, if you're a newcomer, can involve working with an established producer - yes, they're after material to put in as proposals. However, you'll need to have done something that demonstrates your talent (or be be a relative). Currently, I'd say the BBC regards their HD channel as a flagship, so it's going for high end content. As they create more HD channels they'll be wanting more lower budget programming, however, by that time HDV will not be in the picture. There's no problem with HDV or the EX1 on SD programmes. However, the Sony PDW 700 seems to be the minimum for BBC HD, although perhaps the Scarlet might pass next year. http://www.sony.co.uk/res/attachment...3315636944.pdf

May 11th, 2008, 06:53 AM	#20
Glen Vandermolen Space Hipster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,596	Alister, thanks for the info. Are these tiers for a European Discovery HD channel (if there is one)? If so, I am wondering if there are separate standards for the US version.

May 11th, 2008, 01:58 PM	#21
Steve Harryman Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Fruitport Posts: 28	Alistar and crew, Thanks for your experience. Sounds like I should realistically shoot for SD programming.

May 12th, 2008, 01:18 AM	#23
Bruce Rawlings Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Cardiff, Wales, UK Posts: 410	I am sure that the broadcasters have not thought about it yet. From the quality of some of the stuff they put out I am sure the EX1/EX3 will get used without a problem. As someone else has posted, a few years down the line and they will be running anything they can get cheap as the viewers will have gone to surf the net for what they really want to see not what a jumped up commissioning editor thinks they should watch.