EX format and Discovery HD broadcast std

[Steve Harryman]

I am finding conflicting information regarding the EX format meeting the HD broadcast standards of Discovery HD. Nigel's review mentions the EX format meets the full broadcast standard of Discovery and others----yet Discovery.ca said they don't accept the XDCAM EX format at 35mbps, but they do accept the XDCAM HD format at 35mbps. Has anyone else heard the bottom line on the EX series for broadcast?

[Mike Barber]

Are you asking because you are producing content for Discovery HD? If so, then your contact at Discovery should be provide you with all the specs you need.

If you aren't producing content for Discovery HD, why does it matter?

Broadcasters all have their own specifics when it comes to the technical details of content. Best place to know is to get it straight from the horse's mouth.

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

Isn't the quality of the codec, of the Sony EX XDCAM HD not at least as good as that of the bigger camera's? (same bitrate, higher resolution)?

I'm not talking about the lenses or so, but purely codec...

[Holger Neuhaeuser]

Yes they accept xdcam with 35mps.

http://www.videoscope.com/pdf_files/...DSpec.logo.pdf

Cheers
Holger

[Matt Davis]

Originally Posted by Holger Neuhaeuser

Yes they accept xdcam with 35mps.

I think that predates the EX1 launch. I've seen subsequent notes that impose the same limitations on EX1 footage as the HVX200.

And not just with the Discovery Channel - the same is true of the BBC.

This is where I take a deep breath and accept that these are not TECHNICAL limitations, they are to set the bar high enough to prevent them being swamped by a flood of so-so productions filmed on Z1s.

Now, there's a documentary that's called The Family That Walks on All Fours:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fam...s_On_All_Fours

filmed on Z1s, sold worldwide, marvelous production, who cares what it was shot on, looks great and more importantly is a riveting bit of documentary. It was edited in an outhouse in Wiltshire, UK (a fine part of the country I may add). On Final Cut Pro. Who cares.

The Discovery Channel and the Beeb are not going to turn down an amazing documentary like that. But if you buy a Z1 knowing that the Discovery Channel accepts it as an origination format, you and the rest of the world are going to be beating a path to their door with infomercials about cake mix and somebody who discovered the face of Conan in a cookie, so the best way of preserving their sanity is to put a big huge filter on their door:

Thou Shalt Film with a 2/3" chip.

Trouble is, a lot of first rung producers won't get this, so they publish a helpful list of cameras that are affordable to first rung producers, and state that This Will Not Do.

Of course, if you have access to an amazing story that will keep millions of people from switching channels during commercial breaks, I guess you could film it on a Nokia.

If you really think that hamster bedding is a worthy subject of a documentary, and you manage to secure funding that enables you to shoot it on high end kit, then the Disco channel may deign to watch a bit of it because you've obviously worked hard to make it. But if you hand them a tape that's iMovie's take of a Sony A1, it's going to be hard work.

The trouble is, there may be something to be said about hamster bedding and only somebody with iMovie and an A1 could afford to do it without funding, and that's where the web is going to win over TV.

Ranting - sorry. Shoot the format you can afford, but just tell a good story and the rest is fine. Disco, Beeb and rest will be toast in 10 years.

[Swen Goebbels]

Originally Posted by Matt Daviss

these are not TECHNICAL limitations, they are to set the bar high enough to prevent them being swamped by a flood of so-so productions filmed on Z1s.

I 100% agree to this! It's not only Discovery and BBC which set the bar so high in their specifications. But for most Tv-Stations the key is to have something they really would like to broadcast.

So it happend two times to me that TV-Stations changed their contracts and acepted DVCam or even MiniDV tapes, because they still were interested in that product.

[Collis Davis]

Dear All:

The URL below links to a New York Times story about the incredible "DV" footage shot by tourists at the Kruger Wildlife preserve in Northeast South Africa with a Canon ZR50MC camera. The footage caught a battle between a herd of buffalo, a pride of lions and a crocodile over a buffalo calf. I won't give away the ending.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/10/ar...gt6wv0DqnjVZug

In the beginning, the majors like National Geographics and Animal Planet, rejected the footage because it was below spec. But later, when they found out that this footage had garnered 30 million views on YouTube, National Geographic came crawling back to the producer, Mr. Budzinski, who originally pitched it. Now it'll be broadcast Sunday night at 9 pm EST repackaged a 60-min documentary utilizing the 8-min DV segment. I hope the producer doubled his fees!

Matt Daviss got it right when he noted here, "Of course, if you have access to an amazing story that will keep millions of people from switching channels during commercial breaks, I guess you could film it on a Nokia."

Quoting the NYT article, "Enhanced by professionals, the television video is clearly superior to the blurry and heavily compressed version viewed online."

So much for so-called broadcast standards. Check it out on the YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnhaCt0z_yY

Collis Davis

[Alister Chapman]

Discovery don't keep to their own guidelines and never have! They are currently shooting a show in the US following a group of storm chasers that are trying to drive an armored truck into a tornado. They followed the same group last year and that season is currently being shown around the world. The budget for the new series is around the $1million USD. They have several crews following different aspects of the chasers. It is all being shot in HD... on Z1's!

I have been informed by a college that did some of the acceptance trials for Discovery that the EX1 is accepted as Silver.

[Steve Harryman]

I understand where you guys are coming from--however since I'm looking at purchasing my next camera--there's nothing worse than shooting something in HD worthy of broadcast and then having BBC or Discovery HD reject it because of it being shot on in HDV vs XDCAM. If it has to be something so remarkable for them to accept in HDV, then alot of good projects out there will never see the light of day on those networks. So the decision of an XL-H1 vs an XDCAM EX3 becomes very important.

[Bill Davis]

Other than to support Matt Daviss excellent reply I don't really have anything important to add.

I just wanted to participate in a thread that had THREE "Davis(s)" posting to it.

(Hey, Matt - did you LOSE an 's' somewhere? Or were my ancestors just too lazy to scribble it twice when they arrived from Wales back in the dawn of the 1500s?)

Nice answer, whatever the case.

[Doug Okamoto]

Originally Posted by Steve Harryman

I understand where you guys are coming from--however since I'm looking at purchasing my next camera--there's nothing worse than shooting something in HD worthy of broadcast and then having BBC or Discovery HD reject it because of it being shot on in HDV vs XDCAM. If it has to be something so remarkable for them to accept in HDV, then alot of good projects out there will never see the light of day on those networks. So the decision of an XL-H1 vs an XDCAM EX3 becomes very important.

Unless you have a contract or 'high up inside source' with either organization or a well known Director or Producer attached to the project the chances are not better for them (DSC, BBC, or PBS) to even look at your footage regardless of what flavor of HD you are shooting with.

Television like film is more 'who you know' vs 'how well you do.' There are exceptions to this rule but they are rare.

[Jason Bodnar]

Doug, I agree 100% and it sucks that so much great content does not make it thru the filters and is shelved for those very reasons.... you see it in Television, Movies, and Music everyday....Guess that is why I am starting to get a bitter taste for mainstream media outlets... I have found content that very much deserves to be seen and enjoyed by the masses but sadly is not seeing the light of day. Things are changing very quickly for us though with new independent outlets and with more bandwidth becoming available we will be able to start our own channels...

[Doug Okamoto]

Yeah, don't get me started on some of the content that is put out as broadcast simply because the Executive Producer's cousin twice removed wanted to make a movie...

I'm looking forward to the future as well! It's all about making a great story and gathering a large audience...

[Glen Vandermolen]

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman

Discovery don't keep to their own guidelines and never have! They are currently shooting a show in the US following a group of storm chasers that are trying to drive an armored truck into a tornado. They followed the same group last year and that season is currently being shown around the world. The budget for the new series is around the $1million USD. They have several crews following different aspects of the chasers. It is all being shot in HD... on Z1's!

I have been informed by a college that did some of the acceptance trials for Discovery that the EX1 is accepted as Silver.

What is "Silver?" Nigel Cooper said in his review that the EX line was accepted for 100% acquisition for Silver.
I've also heard the D-HD series Deadliest Catch is entirely shot with Z1s.

[Tom Roper]

NASA sets the bar the highest. You have to use a Z1 or A1, shoot with a highly compressed format, and probably be a rocket scientist. Even with that, from the vacuum of space your footage will not be aired.

But seriously, I think the HD networks have it right, and that the current bar can and should be expected to be escalated further. If the Z1 had existed 5 years ago when HDNet was the only exclusive HD network broadcasting 18 hours a day, when ice hockey and football were broadcast without scoreboards, banners or marquees, the network would have accepted it eagerly.