EX format and Discovery HD broadcast std at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 8th, 2008, 11:55 PM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Fruitport
Posts: 28
EX format and Discovery HD broadcast std

I am finding conflicting information regarding the EX format meeting the HD broadcast standards of Discovery HD. Nigel's review mentions the EX format meets the full broadcast standard of Discovery and others----yet Discovery.ca said they don't accept the XDCAM EX format at 35mbps, but they do accept the XDCAM HD format at 35mbps. Has anyone else heard the bottom line on the EX series for broadcast?
Steve Harryman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9th, 2008, 11:15 AM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto ON Canada
Posts: 731
Are you asking because you are producing content for Discovery HD? If so, then your contact at Discovery should be provide you with all the specs you need.

If you aren't producing content for Discovery HD, why does it matter?

Broadcasters all have their own specifics when it comes to the technical details of content. Best place to know is to get it straight from the horse's mouth.
__________________
Mike Barber
"I'm laughing to stop myself from screaming."
Mike Barber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9th, 2008, 11:45 AM   #3
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Belgium
Posts: 2,195
Isn't the quality of the codec, of the Sony EX XDCAM HD not at least as good as that of the bigger camera's? (same bitrate, higher resolution)?

I'm not talking about the lenses or so, but purely codec...
Mathieu Ghekiere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9th, 2008, 12:08 PM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Munich Germany
Posts: 37
Yes they accept xdcam with 35mps.

http://www.videoscope.com/pdf_files/...DSpec.logo.pdf

Cheers
Holger
Holger Neuhaeuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9th, 2008, 02:37 PM   #5
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 1,562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holger Neuhaeuser View Post
Yes they accept xdcam with 35mps.
I think that predates the EX1 launch. I've seen subsequent notes that impose the same limitations on EX1 footage as the HVX200.

And not just with the Discovery Channel - the same is true of the BBC.

This is where I take a deep breath and accept that these are not TECHNICAL limitations, they are to set the bar high enough to prevent them being swamped by a flood of so-so productions filmed on Z1s.

Now, there's a documentary that's called The Family That Walks on All Fours:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fam...s_On_All_Fours

filmed on Z1s, sold worldwide, marvelous production, who cares what it was shot on, looks great and more importantly is a riveting bit of documentary. It was edited in an outhouse in Wiltshire, UK (a fine part of the country I may add). On Final Cut Pro. Who cares.

The Discovery Channel and the Beeb are not going to turn down an amazing documentary like that. But if you buy a Z1 knowing that the Discovery Channel accepts it as an origination format, you and the rest of the world are going to be beating a path to their door with infomercials about cake mix and somebody who discovered the face of Conan in a cookie, so the best way of preserving their sanity is to put a big huge filter on their door:

Thou Shalt Film with a 2/3" chip.

Trouble is, a lot of first rung producers won't get this, so they publish a helpful list of cameras that are affordable to first rung producers, and state that This Will Not Do.

Of course, if you have access to an amazing story that will keep millions of people from switching channels during commercial breaks, I guess you could film it on a Nokia.

If you really think that hamster bedding is a worthy subject of a documentary, and you manage to secure funding that enables you to shoot it on high end kit, then the Disco channel may deign to watch a bit of it because you've obviously worked hard to make it. But if you hand them a tape that's iMovie's take of a Sony A1, it's going to be hard work.

The trouble is, there may be something to be said about hamster bedding and only somebody with iMovie and an A1 could afford to do it without funding, and that's where the web is going to win over TV.

Ranting - sorry. Shoot the format you can afford, but just tell a good story and the rest is fine. Disco, Beeb and rest will be toast in 10 years.
__________________
Director/Editor - MDMA Ltd: Write, Shoot, Edit, Publish - mattdavis.pro
EX1 x2, C100 --> FCPX & PPro6
Matt Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2008, 01:33 AM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Aachen, Germany and Las Vegas NV
Posts: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Daviss View Post
these are not TECHNICAL limitations, they are to set the bar high enough to prevent them being swamped by a flood of so-so productions filmed on Z1s.
I 100% agree to this! It's not only Discovery and BBC which set the bar so high in their specifications. But for most Tv-Stations the key is to have something they really would like to broadcast.

So it happend two times to me that TV-Stations changed their contracts and acepted DVCam or even MiniDV tapes, because they still were interested in that product.
Swen Goebbels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2008, 05:47 AM   #7
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Metro Manila, Philippines
Posts: 60
"Battle at Kruger" exposes the hypocracy of broadcast standards

Dear All:

The URL below links to a New York Times story about the incredible "DV" footage shot by tourists at the Kruger Wildlife preserve in Northeast South Africa with a Canon ZR50MC camera. The footage caught a battle between a herd of buffalo, a pride of lions and a crocodile over a buffalo calf. I won't give away the ending.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/10/ar...gt6wv0DqnjVZug

In the beginning, the majors like National Geographics and Animal Planet, rejected the footage because it was below spec. But later, when they found out that this footage had garnered 30 million views on YouTube, National Geographic came crawling back to the producer, Mr. Budzinski, who originally pitched it. Now it'll be broadcast Sunday night at 9 pm EST repackaged a 60-min documentary utilizing the 8-min DV segment. I hope the producer doubled his fees!

Matt Daviss got it right when he noted here, "Of course, if you have access to an amazing story that will keep millions of people from switching channels during commercial breaks, I guess you could film it on a Nokia."

Quoting the NYT article, "Enhanced by professionals, the television video is clearly superior to the blurry and heavily compressed version viewed online."

So much for so-called broadcast standards. Check it out on the YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnhaCt0z_yY

Collis Davis
__________________
Collis H. Davis, Jr.
Okara Video
Philippines
Collis Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2008, 10:18 AM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK
Posts: 4,957
Discovery don't keep to their own guidelines and never have! They are currently shooting a show in the US following a group of storm chasers that are trying to drive an armored truck into a tornado. They followed the same group last year and that season is currently being shown around the world. The budget for the new series is around the $1million USD. They have several crews following different aspects of the chasers. It is all being shot in HD... on Z1's!

I have been informed by a college that did some of the acceptance trials for Discovery that the EX1 is accepted as Silver.
__________________
Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com
Alister Chapman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2008, 05:57 PM   #9
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Fruitport
Posts: 28
I understand where you guys are coming from--however since I'm looking at purchasing my next camera--there's nothing worse than shooting something in HD worthy of broadcast and then having BBC or Discovery HD reject it because of it being shot on in HDV vs XDCAM. If it has to be something so remarkable for them to accept in HDV, then alot of good projects out there will never see the light of day on those networks. So the decision of an XL-H1 vs an XDCAM EX3 becomes very important.
Steve Harryman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2008, 06:38 PM   #10
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Posts: 1,538
Other than to support Matt Daviss excellent reply I don't really have anything important to add.

I just wanted to participate in a thread that had THREE "Davis(s)" posting to it.

(Hey, Matt - did you LOSE an 's' somewhere? Or were my ancestors just too lazy to scribble it twice when they arrived from Wales back in the dawn of the 1500s?)

Nice answer, whatever the case.
Bill Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2008, 06:48 PM   #11
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Bellevue, Washington
Posts: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Harryman View Post
I understand where you guys are coming from--however since I'm looking at purchasing my next camera--there's nothing worse than shooting something in HD worthy of broadcast and then having BBC or Discovery HD reject it because of it being shot on in HDV vs XDCAM. If it has to be something so remarkable for them to accept in HDV, then alot of good projects out there will never see the light of day on those networks. So the decision of an XL-H1 vs an XDCAM EX3 becomes very important.
Unless you have a contract or 'high up inside source' with either organization or a well known Director or Producer attached to the project the chances are not better for them (DSC, BBC, or PBS) to even look at your footage regardless of what flavor of HD you are shooting with.

Television like film is more 'who you know' vs 'how well you do.' There are exceptions to this rule but they are rare.
Doug Okamoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2008, 07:05 PM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Posts: 376
Doug, I agree 100% and it sucks that so much great content does not make it thru the filters and is shelved for those very reasons.... you see it in Television, Movies, and Music everyday....Guess that is why I am starting to get a bitter taste for mainstream media outlets... I have found content that very much deserves to be seen and enjoyed by the masses but sadly is not seeing the light of day. Things are changing very quickly for us though with new independent outlets and with more bandwidth becoming available we will be able to start our own channels...
Jason Bodnar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2008, 07:12 PM   #13
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Bellevue, Washington
Posts: 145
Yeah, don't get me started on some of the content that is put out as broadcast simply because the Executive Producer's cousin twice removed wanted to make a movie...

I'm looking forward to the future as well! It's all about making a great story and gathering a large audience...
Doug Okamoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2008, 12:06 AM   #14
Space Hipster
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 1,593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alister Chapman View Post
Discovery don't keep to their own guidelines and never have! They are currently shooting a show in the US following a group of storm chasers that are trying to drive an armored truck into a tornado. They followed the same group last year and that season is currently being shown around the world. The budget for the new series is around the $1million USD. They have several crews following different aspects of the chasers. It is all being shot in HD... on Z1's!

I have been informed by a college that did some of the acceptance trials for Discovery that the EX1 is accepted as Silver.
What is "Silver?" Nigel Cooper said in his review that the EX line was accepted for 100% acquisition for Silver.
I've also heard the D-HD series Deadliest Catch is entirely shot with Z1s.
Glen Vandermolen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2008, 12:10 AM   #15
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 1,866
NASA sets the bar the highest. You have to use a Z1 or A1, shoot with a highly compressed format, and probably be a rocket scientist. Even with that, from the vacuum of space your footage will not be aired.

But seriously, I think the HD networks have it right, and that the current bar can and should be expected to be escalated further. If the Z1 had existed 5 years ago when HDNet was the only exclusive HD network broadcasting 18 hours a day, when ice hockey and football were broadcast without scoreboards, banners or marquees, the network would have accepted it eagerly.
Tom Roper is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:11 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network