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Old May 9th, 2008, 10:30 AM   #1
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EX-1 has no audio gain limiter?!

A read this somewhere from a guy who was comparing the V7 with the EX-1.
No audio gain limiting capabilities...really?

Incidentally, he said the V7 was "on par" with the EX-1, picture quality wise. Huh!?
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Old May 9th, 2008, 11:23 AM   #2
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Some people even think the earth is flat.

Audio AGC can be enabled.

I can't even politely comment on someone who thinks the V7 image is on par with the EX. I guess with certain shots under certain lighting conditions they could be close but I'd seriously question someone's judgement if they believe that to be a general truth.
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Old May 9th, 2008, 11:55 AM   #3
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AGC not the same as a limiter

XDCAM HD 350 has a great limiter even when in manual gain on audio channels 1 and 2. This is definitely not the same as AGC, it is a true limiter.

On channels 3 and 4 audio is always on AGC, at least with the last firmware I used. AGC is quite good however, doesn't pump much if at all.

Double check me because I sold my camera so I can't double check this myself.

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Old May 9th, 2008, 12:37 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Soriano View Post
No audio gain limiting capabilities...really?
Yes, that's true.
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Old May 9th, 2008, 01:14 PM   #5
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Yesterday I have read a test in a German Video magazin. They compared the V7 and Ex1.... V7 got a little bit better picture quality than the Ex1 in that test. I couldn't understand how this can be possible and thought, that test was stupid. But now the next says V7 has the same (or better) picture quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Soriano View Post
A read this somewhere from a guy who was comparing the V7 with the EX-1.
No audio gain limiting capabilities...really?

Incidentally, he said the V7 was "on par" with the EX-1, picture quality wise. Huh!?
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Old May 9th, 2008, 02:18 PM   #6
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There is a limiter which isn't AGC but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mann View Post
Yes, that's true.
I'm stepping into a very turbulent stream here, but from what I have understood with month or two of EX1, discussions with Sony reps and the knowledge of some great folks who hang out here...

The EX1 _does_ have a limiter circuit in the audio chain, but it's not very good.

You can't enable or disable it, hence no mentions in the menus, it's just there. However, it doesn't do the job it should do. In fact it seems to be the antithesis of the Z1 limiter. The Z1 audio is almost unburstable, but the frequency response is so-so and the dynamic range is limited in the HDV mode. But you can hardly fail to get usable audio with manual control with limiters, whatever happens. On the EX1, AGC is slow to respond and IMHO drives too high. The limiter also seems to kick in AFTER the AGC, therefore reducing the volume of an already-distorted signal.

It's horses for courses: a Z1's compressed audio needs as much level as you can chuck at it, to make up for the high noise floor and lack of dynamic range, so therefore you need to have the safety net (albeit an inverted safety net) of a limiter because you'll be riding levels around -12 dB.

An EX1 is a broadcast beast, and the AGC seems to want to pump everything up to ride at Z1 levels (-12 dB), but actually the clean and wide-frequency-response audio should be bubbling along at -20 dB, WAY below what your average Z1 user would feel comfortable with, but exactly where your sound engineer will peg their levels at.

Therefore, one shouldn't (as in "shouldn't") need a Z1 style limiter in an EX1 audio circuit so long as your levels are in the first third of the scale. But if you do need it (gadzooks!), it's there.

But if you switch AGC on, that circuit seems to work from the Z1 rule book whilst the rest of the audio works from the pro rule book.

And this, children, is where you get tears before bed time.

Handing you over to Mr Weiss...
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Old May 9th, 2008, 10:54 PM   #7
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Huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swen Goebbels View Post
Yesterday I have read a test in a German Video magazin. They compared the V7 and Ex1.... V7 got a little bit better picture quality than the Ex1 in that test. I couldn't understand how this can be possible and thought, that test was stupid. But now the next says V7 has the same (or better) picture quality.
Can it be true?
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Old May 10th, 2008, 01:55 AM   #8
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Guess we're talking Z7? Would have to see the tests, but many people evaluate image quality subjectively and that means little. It seems very unlikely that the report is correct in its conclusion, given the specs of the two cameras.
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Old May 10th, 2008, 02:18 AM   #9
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Yes it was Z7 in that test. I just did remember something with "7"
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Old May 10th, 2008, 02:51 AM   #10
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Swen, which magazine is it?
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Old May 10th, 2008, 03:30 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mann View Post
Swen, which magazine is it?
Here you have the link to the magazin:
http://www.videoaktiv.de/content/view/1633/40/

The difference was not that big but when I see the price difference a Z7 must be a very good cam. I never tested a Z7 and my Ex1 makes great pictures.
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