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Old May 16th, 2008, 07:42 AM   #1
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EX1 HD-SDI output format

Hi,

There was a long talk about the 4:2:0 / 4:2:2 output.
My question here is more about the frame rate.

What is the output format of the HD-SDI of the EX1 ?
Is it dependent of the camera format or frame rate ? Is it always 1080@50i with pulldown or so ?

I'm asking this because I saw a 8" LCD monitor with HD-SDI input, but only compatible with 720P and 1080I, not 1080p...
I want to be sure I can use this monitor with the EX1, but also with many other camera, like sony F900 or Varicam.

Thanks.
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Old May 16th, 2008, 08:34 AM   #2
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Can't verify it but if I recall correctly it's always 1080@60i with pulldown.

The "upcoming" firmware update has been roumored to contain an update to also be able to output 1080@24p over HD SDI.

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Old May 16th, 2008, 08:37 AM   #3
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Can't verify either, but I thought it was 50/60i when going to media (card) but HD-SDI was whatever was set (720/50P etc.)
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Old May 16th, 2008, 08:44 AM   #4
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I would like someone to confirme.

As far as I remember, even Sony F900 output 1080@24PsF, which means it is always interlaced, with double frame rate and progressive image cut in two fields...

Anybody having an intelligente SDI monitor or card or Astro to confirm that ?

Thanks.
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Old May 16th, 2008, 08:50 AM   #5
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Again, I think that's to tape on the F900, not neccessarily via the HD-SDI. But can't confirm, sorry, we need a real expert here!
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Old May 16th, 2008, 09:19 AM   #6
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The SDI follows the YPbPr HD output, manual page 117.

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Old May 22nd, 2008, 03:36 AM   #7
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OK. That's an answer.
I would also like to have someone with a HD-SDI card or monitor or oscillo to confirm, but as I read somewhere else, 1080p is not supported in HD-SDI. Only interlaced and doubble frequency for PsF.

Thanks.
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Old May 22nd, 2008, 05:48 AM   #8
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Normal HD-SDI is "Single Link" which runs at 1.485 Gigabits per second.

Dual Link HD-SDI consists of two "Single Link" HD-SDI links and supports 4:4:4 whereas normal HD-SDI only supports 4:2:2.

Also, 1080p would require Dual Link HD-SDI (as I understand it) or the new 3 Gigabit per second version.

The 3 Gigabit per second version of HD-SDI should support 1080p, but this is a specialty item that is fairly new.

You camera determines what flavor of HD-SDI that you have. The Sony EX1/EX3 and the Canon models are Single Link HD-SDI at 1.485 Gigabits per second. Only high-end cameras support Dual Link.
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Old May 22nd, 2008, 06:14 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastien Thomas View Post
I read somewhere else, 1080p is not supported in HD-SDI. Only interlaced and doubble frequency for PsF.
Right, as the table denotes. I'm not sure what you're getting at; the EX1 can "only" go as high a 1080P30, which is the limit for both the sensor as well as for the single link HD SDI. The EX does output 30P as 60PsF, but that should not matter much; most NLE's can do pulldown removal on ingest.

It has been rumoured that an upcoming firmware update will allow 1080P24 without pulldown over SDI out.

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Old May 22nd, 2008, 06:24 AM   #10
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As far as my scope tells me, along with an AJA io box, in 1080p24 the sdi outputs 1080i60. As previously stated, this will change with an upcoming firmware update. As far as the F900, you get the format you're shooting in. Keep in mind though that the F900 usually shoots in a Psf mode, which is not the same as interlace. The frames are split in half and recorded with essentially an interlace tape head, but the signal does not read as interlace. Most monitors with HD-SDI will handle any signal you can give them, but if you want to use it with an F900 make sure it can handle Psf.

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Old May 22nd, 2008, 11:10 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Donnelly View Post
As far as my scope tells me, along with an AJA io box, in 1080p24 the sdi outputs 1080i60.
Just to make sure this is not misunderstood: The 1080i60 contains a progressive 24p stream with 3:2 pulldown.

This means the interlaced fields contain two halves of the same (progressive) image without any temporal difference, unlike with interlaced footage where the fields are 'recorded' ~1/60th of a second apart.

When you remove the pulldown on ingest you have a true progressive 24p file for post.

George/

P.S. Never use de-interlace on PsF/pulldown footage as this will make a mess of it.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 01:03 PM   #12
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The HD-SDI spec will always be 60i. Firmware change or not. The actual signal coming out of the spigot HAS TO BE 60i. The firmware is probably only flagging the proper frames (like HDCAM decks do) so that the NLE can properly apply 3:2 on ingest.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 02:24 PM   #13
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This is confusing, but to be clear, the end result in the computer will be 1080p 24 or 30 fps if the camera is set to 1080p correct?

Not a 1080i interpretation with lower resolution.?
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 04:00 PM   #14
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Yes.

No.

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Old May 23rd, 2008, 08:59 PM   #15
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Thanks for your reply
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