Rendering time with EX1 HQ footage? at DVinfo.net

Jae Staats · May 17th, 2008, 06:53 PM

Just curious from someone who owns a EX1 ... is the rendering/compression time with the HQ 35mbs footage faster than HDV content? I have a Mac Pro, tons of memory and fastest processor and graphics card available but I have noticed that HDV footage takes at least 2-3 times more time to render or export or compress than say SD footage or even HD footage from the P2.

Also then, is the 25mbs footage from the EX1 similar to HDV?

Thanks!

Daniel Weber · May 17th, 2008, 07:27 PM

It takes longer because of it being a Long GOP format.

I have done projects on my Macbook Pro and an 8 processor MacPro.

The MacPro is pretty fast. Even doing magic bullet takes some time to render, but much faster than HDV on my old G5 took. Much faster.

I wouldn't worry about it that much. Even if it does take longer to render than SD, it looks soooo much better. It is worth the wait.

Daniel Weber

Craig Seeman · May 17th, 2008, 07:38 PM

In FCP set your sequence to render in Apple Pro Res and it's very fast. You don't need to do a convert at all. It'll do all renders in Pro Res though so there's no GOP re-conform. You can do that with HDV too. In fact this feature ONLY works with HDV and XDCAM and was recently added with FCP 6.

Jae Staats · May 17th, 2008, 07:56 PM

Thanks, Craig...always something to learn!

Ray Bell · May 17th, 2008, 08:11 PM

much faster if you just use Cineform to convert it to AVI format....

Daniel Weber · May 17th, 2008, 08:14 PM

He said he was editing on a Mac Pro using Final Cut, why would he edit in AVI?

Daniel Weber

Jae Staats · May 17th, 2008, 08:31 PM

Yes, I am on a Mac with FCP so would not want to go to AVI.

Craig Seeman · May 17th, 2008, 09:15 PM

FCP XDCAM HD/EX & HDV settings to render Pro Res to avoid GOP re-conform

Barry J. Anwender · May 17th, 2008, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

FCP XDCAM HD/EX & HDV settings to render Pro Res to avoid GOP re-conform

Yes this does speed things up about 35% for HDV, XDCAM-HD and XDCAM-EX. However need to also point out that there is downside. File sizes become about 4.5 times bigger and they require more data throughput from your hard drive(s). An important consideration if you working on a laptop with smaller and possibly slower hard drive(s). On a MacPro, likely no problem, as you will have it equipped accordingly.

Craig Seeman · May 17th, 2008, 10:06 PM

GOP structure actually places more demands on the CPU then I frame files that are larger. It's the same reason DVCPro HD at 100mbps can be less demanding than GOP 35mbps. True the file size is larger with ProRes but the CPU demand is less since I Frame is easier for CPU to handle. Making the renders Pro Res is a good compromise over having to convert the entire file to ProRes (or other I frame format) or dealing with GOP conform on every effect and title.

MacBookPro should be able to handle this too as long as one obeys the rule, NEVER use your system drive (boot drive holding OS and FCP) for media files.

Daniel Weber · May 17th, 2008, 10:16 PM

On a related note. I had been having severe crashing problems on rendering with my MacPro. I kept trying to trouble shoot the problem to no avail.

I finally changed the sequence render settings back to HDV from ProRes and the crashing went away. From the crash log that I had it looked like the crash was happening on trying to render the ProRes codec.

I still think that you should try to use this workflow if possible, but keep this in mind if you start having crashes. Never know it may just be my machine!!!

Daniel Weber

Josh Dahlberg · May 17th, 2008, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Weber

On a related note. I had been having severe crashing problems on rendering with my MacPro. I kept trying to trouble shoot the problem to no avail.

I finally changed the sequence render settings back to HDV from ProRes and the crashing went away. From the crash log that I had it looked like the crash was happening on trying to render the ProRes codec.

Daniel, exactly the same thing is happening to me on my new Mac Pro - crashing mid render (sometimes after a few seconds, sometimes a few minutes). Also, parts of the timeline I have already rendered become unrendered while working on new parts of the timeline (or while trying to render a different section). It appears to happen on an arbitrary basis, and driving me insane.

Curiously, I never had this problem on my old computer, an 24" Imac with 1/4 the ram and much less processing power. It could do the HDV render in ProRes trick no problem.

If anyone knows how to fix this I'd be incredibly thankful as I'm back to working / rendering exclusively in HDV.

Jonathan Bland · May 18th, 2008, 12:31 AM

What I need is a thread where Barry and Craig punch it out on techniques :)

David Cheok · May 18th, 2008, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Weber

On a related note. I had been having severe crashing problems on rendering with my MacPro. I kept trying to trouble shoot the problem to no avail.

I finally changed the sequence render settings back to HDV from ProRes and the crashing went away. From the crash log that I had it looked like the crash was happening on trying to render the ProRes codec.

I still think that you should try to use this workflow if possible, but keep this in mind if you start having crashes. Never know it may just be my machine!!!

Daniel Weber

Mine crashed a fair bit too. However, what i've noticed is, mine was likely due to this plugin called Noise Industries. I had another installation (with GenArts Sapphire only) on the same machine on a separate OS that didn't have this problem (not as severe). So for that, RAM and scratch disks were not the issue. Usually, these are the factors that are the problems for crashes in FCP (so I have been told)..

1) Memory (most common)
a) Wired - bad memory
b) Virtual - capture and render scratch disks insufficient space/speed/fragmentation etc
Solution: swap memory and test, add more (ProRes HQ is a notorious memory hog), use Raid 0 striped over 4 volumes for scratch/render, put your OS on its own Raid 0 installation without other unnecessary apps e.g. mail, games etc..

2) Add-ons/Plug-ins (common)
a) incompatible with latest upgrade
b) bug
Solution: Uninstall or update to latest

3) FCP updates (getting more common nowadays)
a) OSX itself
b) FCP itself
Solution: Re-install or wait for latest

A quick help mechanism i have for my FCP is to set the autosave at 1 min and 10-20 saves. It helps. At least u only lose one min of render. Another option is to render portions of the sequence at a time.

Josh Dahlberg · May 18th, 2008, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Cheok

Mine crashed a fair bit too. However, what i've noticed is, mine was likely due to this plugin called Noise Industries.

I also use Noise Industries plugins on my constantly crashing Mac Pro. The crashes only happen when I render in ProRes.

My 24" Imac with the same plugins does not crash.

Thanks for your detailed info David.

May 17th, 2008, 06:53 PM	#1
Jae Staats Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: United States Posts: 51	Rendering time with EX1 HQ footage? Just curious from someone who owns a EX1 ... is the rendering/compression time with the HQ 35mbs footage faster than HDV content? I have a Mac Pro, tons of memory and fastest processor and graphics card available but I have noticed that HDV footage takes at least 2-3 times more time to render or export or compress than say SD footage or even HD footage from the P2. Also then, is the 25mbs footage from the EX1 similar to HDV? Thanks!

May 17th, 2008, 09:15 PM	#8
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	FCP XDCAM HD/EX & HDV settings to render Pro Res to avoid GOP re-conform Attached Thumbnails

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May 17th, 2008, 07:27 PM	#2
Daniel Weber Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 696	It takes longer because of it being a Long GOP format. I have done projects on my Macbook Pro and an 8 processor MacPro. The MacPro is pretty fast. Even doing magic bullet takes some time to render, but much faster than HDV on my old G5 took. Much faster. I wouldn't worry about it that much. Even if it does take longer to render than SD, it looks soooo much better. It is worth the wait. Daniel Weber

May 17th, 2008, 07:38 PM	#3
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	In FCP set your sequence to render in Apple Pro Res and it's very fast. You don't need to do a convert at all. It'll do all renders in Pro Res though so there's no GOP re-conform. You can do that with HDV too. In fact this feature ONLY works with HDV and XDCAM and was recently added with FCP 6.

May 17th, 2008, 07:56 PM	#4
Jae Staats Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: United States Posts: 51	Thanks, Craig...always something to learn!

May 17th, 2008, 08:11 PM	#5
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	much faster if you just use Cineform to convert it to AVI format....

May 17th, 2008, 08:14 PM	#6
Daniel Weber Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 696	He said he was editing on a Mac Pro using Final Cut, why would he edit in AVI? Daniel Weber

May 17th, 2008, 08:31 PM	#7
Jae Staats Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: United States Posts: 51	Yes, I am on a Mac with FCP so would not want to go to AVI.

May 17th, 2008, 10:06 PM	#10
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	GOP structure actually places more demands on the CPU then I frame files that are larger. It's the same reason DVCPro HD at 100mbps can be less demanding than GOP 35mbps. True the file size is larger with ProRes but the CPU demand is less since I Frame is easier for CPU to handle. Making the renders Pro Res is a good compromise over having to convert the entire file to ProRes (or other I frame format) or dealing with GOP conform on every effect and title. MacBookPro should be able to handle this too as long as one obeys the rule, NEVER use your system drive (boot drive holding OS and FCP) for media files.

May 17th, 2008, 10:16 PM	#11
Daniel Weber Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 696	On a related note. I had been having severe crashing problems on rendering with my MacPro. I kept trying to trouble shoot the problem to no avail. I finally changed the sequence render settings back to HDV from ProRes and the crashing went away. From the crash log that I had it looked like the crash was happening on trying to render the ProRes codec. I still think that you should try to use this workflow if possible, but keep this in mind if you start having crashes. Never know it may just be my machine!!! Daniel Weber

May 18th, 2008, 12:31 AM	#13
Jonathan Bland Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Way Far Away Posts: 230	What I need is a thread where Barry and Craig punch it out on techniques :)