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Old February 11th, 2008, 01:31 AM   #1
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Strobing / flicker effect when panning in 24p

Someone please tell me this amount of strobing isn’t normal when shooting in progressive mode…

Link to uncompressed footage (192MB).

Link to compressed footage (19MB).

Theses were the settings: PAL, 35 mbps (VBR), 25p, 1920 x 1080. Shutter 1/50, manual iris, gain -3, manual white balance and manual focus.

This is my third camera, the first had the light fall-off problem (aka vignetting), the second had a focus problem and this the third, seems to have this strobing problem, although I did notice the same strobing on the second camera also.

I used to have a Canon A1 and never experience this problem shooting progressive.

Any help would be appreciated.

Regards,

Simon

Last edited by Simon Frances; February 11th, 2008 at 12:05 PM.
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Old February 11th, 2008, 02:08 AM   #2
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<Theses were the settings: PAL, 35 mbps (VBR), 25p>

this is normal in progressive modeÖ.... I have the EX1 and the XHA1 (PAL).
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Old February 11th, 2008, 07:45 AM   #3
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All are from B&H, I didn't want the first one sent to Sony, as some people were getting there cameras back and still experiencing the same problem. I spoke to sony regarding the second one and sent them the footage; they agreed the camera was faulty but they did not know what the fault was even after it to their head engineer. So it was a case of either sending it back to Sony with no estimation of how long it was going to take or an exchange again. There seemed to be so much wrong, I opted for the later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang Winne View Post
<Theses were the settings: PAL, 35 mbps (VBR), 25p>

this is normal in progressive mode….... I have the EX1 and the XHA1 (PAL).
Hi Wolfgang,

I too had the PAL version of the XHA1 but it didn't have this strobing effect like this. This has to be clearly unacceptable, it unwatchable.

So are we saying we can't use progressive with anything that moves in this fashion?

Regards,

Simon
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Old February 11th, 2008, 03:33 PM   #4
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I have only watched the compressed material. Am downloading the uncompressed right now. The footage on the web had a lot of irregular strobing but this should be expected watching something filmed at 25 fps on a 60 Hz computer monitor. Are you saying that it is also strobing in an irregular way on a 50 Hz monitor?
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Old February 11th, 2008, 03:48 PM   #5
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This seems to be a judder problem, or I'm totally wrong.
Don't know why this happens with your camera though.

Tried a factory reset?


regards Dennis
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Old February 11th, 2008, 04:10 PM   #6
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wow... I have not seen anything like that from mine....

you sure it's the camera and not a software problem? almost reminds me of cineframe from the z1/fx1.... like it's a pull down issue.

your not going from 25p to 24p on export are you?
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Old February 11th, 2008, 04:13 PM   #7
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So, I've watched your uncompressed material with zoomplayer (vlc shows a similar problem).

Seems ok!
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Old February 11th, 2008, 09:08 PM   #8
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Simon: For various minor reasons I was thinking of asking B&H to exchange my camera but I didn't know how to approach it. How did you get them to change your camera 3 times?
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Old February 12th, 2008, 08:17 AM   #9
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Quote:
Are you saying that it is also strobing in an irregular way on a 50 Hz monitor?
I havenít had chance to view it on a proper monitor, I was initially concerned that I could not view it on a computer monitor. I will hook it up when I return home on Wednesday.

Quote:
Tried a factory reset?
It seems to play okay in the camera, which I guess suggest the camera is fine. However itís hard to really tell being that the LCD is a bit too small to see this.

Quote:
you sure it's the camera and not a software problem?

your not going from 25p to 24p on export are you?
I think youíre right; it seems to be a software issue. As for exporting from 25p to 24p; no, as Iím not exporting when just viewing in XDCAM Transfer and Clip Browser.

Thanks for everyones help and comments, please keep them coming. I'm also speaking to Sony to see what they can come up with.

Regards,

Simon
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Old February 12th, 2008, 09:02 AM   #10
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To me it sounds like you are just experiencing what happens when you playback on a monitor with a frame rate that is not equal to or double the recording frame rate.
I would not bother Sony with this before looking at the material on a 50 Hz monitor.
Another way would be to make another recording in 30P och 60i and playback on a computer monitor. That should not produce the jitter/strobe problems.
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Old May 19th, 2008, 12:04 AM   #11
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Just a wild guess but... um... Rolling Shutter?

Remember that those films did it on Global Shutter CCDs, not rolling shutter CMOSs.
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Old May 19th, 2008, 12:36 AM   #12
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I understand your issue, I have same and when zooming but your pans are way too fast. As a film student you should know the MPEG suggestion is that an object in the image should take at least seven seconds to cross the screen - yours took about two. Do the test again adding zooms with slower speed and lets see what you get.
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Old May 19th, 2008, 09:15 AM   #13
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Wacth any hollywood action movie and you will see any speed pan to be better that what we are seeing here. From 1 second to 14 seconds.

There is just too much judder. Yesterday I did some shooting out in the forest and I had the camera focused on the character with the trees behind him. The camera was on a shoulder mount but I was not even moving it and I saw some judder when I followed the character as he walked slowly from left to right.

Even very slow movement gives a wierd looking flicker/judder effect. I'm surprised more people have not brought up this issue as much as the backfocus issue. To me, this is more annoying than the backfocus problem.
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Old May 19th, 2008, 10:58 AM   #14
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I raised this issue back in Feb and it's like nobody understood what I meant. Try panning a line of verticle posts (like a line of tall straight trees) and see what you get. Ugh! Try zooming in 24p and you will see the center where rolling shutter has no issues is still while the further you get to the outside of the frame where lateral motion increases it pulstaes and flickers. For me zooming and fast panning just are not on with this camera.
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Old May 19th, 2008, 11:06 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Joseph View Post
I'm surprised more people have not brought up this issue as much as the backfocus issue. To me, this is more annoying than the backfocus problem.
The reason it has not been brought up is because this issue is not unique to the EX1. Try a side by side with another camera at the same settings and you will see.

The notion that the EX1 "renders motion" differently from other cameras (aside from the known issue of how the rolling shutter works) is a canard.

Last edited by Eric Pascarelli; May 19th, 2008 at 01:02 PM.
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