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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old May 20th, 2008, 12:23 PM   #1
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Archive to disc, XDCAM same as BluRay?

Do yall think the XDCAM drive has any advantage over a BluRay burner?
I am looking at the PDWU1

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/searchResul...e=PFD-50DLA%29

And wonder perhaps if I should just get a bluray burner. I am setting up an HDV studio and need to archive my production but the media for one isn't any less costly than the other.
Anybody useing the PDWU1 see great advantages to useing it?
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Old May 20th, 2008, 01:06 PM   #2
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Having a U1 will allow you to import XDCAM HD footage. The discs are more robust than regular Blu-ray discs. You would also be able to write out your finished programmes as 4:2:2 50Mb MXF's complete with proxies if you needed too.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 01:57 PM   #3
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I posed this exact question to the Sony staff at NAB. Archive to Blu-Ray data disc or XDCAM data disc? They really didn't have a recommendation either way. In fact, there appears to be a very distinct demarkation line between the consumer Sony team (Blu-Ray) and the broadcast Sony team (XDCAM). Neither seems too concerned with the other from my discussions.

In any event, our production team is wrestling with same archiving workflow issues. As mentioned previously in this forum, currently we are archiving to HDCAM tape for the time being. I suspect we will end up with Blu-Ray data disc as the archive format of choice though. It's going to be far more of a ubiquitous format than XDCAM disc.

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Old May 20th, 2008, 10:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Gibbons View Post
I suspect we will end up with Blu-Ray data disc as the archive format of choice though. It's going to be far more of a ubiquitous format than XDCAM disc.
Well, there are differences Steve. Let's hope that your material archived to Blu-Ray disc is still accessible several years from now.

Just a couple of thoughts for ponder.

Blu-Ray discs are not in a protective shell as XDCAM discs are which reduces the likelihood of dust and fingerprints on the surface of the disc.

Single layer Blu-Ray holds 50GB of data, whereas XDCAM single layer is 23.5 GB. Why the difference? Because XDCAM disc writes larger areas per byte, helping to insure that the data remains readable... just like running a tape faster puts more magnetic particles under the record head for data integrity while sacrificing capacity.

Naturally, the costs for XDCAM discs are higher, but then again how much will that savings be worth if your data is gone when you need it later.

respectfully,

-gb-
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Old May 20th, 2008, 10:30 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Boston View Post
Single layer Blu-Ray holds 50GB of data, whereas XDCAM single layer is 23.5 GB.
Actually single layer Blu-ray discs are 25GB and dual layer are 50GB. Check Blu-ray standards at Wikipedia or manufacture's Blu-ray specs. At least that is how my Blu-ray Sony BWU-200S burner works for data and video. It's also how my Sony BDP-S300 home theatre plays Blu-ray video, either 25 or 50GB.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 10:34 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Barry J. Anwender View Post
Actually single layer Blu-ray discs are 25GB and dual layer are 50GB. Check Blu-ray standards at Wikipedia or manufacture's Blu-ray specs. At least that is how my Blu-ray Sony BWU-200S burner works for data and video. It's also how my Sony BDP-S300 home theatre plays Blu-ray video, either 25 or 50GB.
Quite right, I stand corrected on that point. Even more embarrassing is the fact that I have 4 boxes of single layer Blu-Ray discs just a few feet away.

-gb-
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Old May 21st, 2008, 12:02 PM   #7
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Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I remember we can't use the U1 unit to copy XDCAM-EX footage until a long-promised future when Sony will do some sort of firmware update.

Is this right? Or are people already using the U1 to copy full-raster XDCAM-EX footage onto the professional discs?

Thanks in advance.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 12:44 PM   #8
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You are correct that right now the U1 does not handle EX1 video @ full raster. A firmware update is promised.

I'm in the middle of this same struggle myself.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 12:58 PM   #9
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Sony announced the U1 update at NAB but I think it may be be available until sometime in Q3. What they're doing is allowing the U1/XDCAM Disc to be used as a data device for full size of the disc, so it's not "codec" support per se. In fact you'd be able to use U1/XDCAM discs to store anything include P2 (perish the thought).
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Old May 21st, 2008, 01:41 PM   #10
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I was under the impression that XDCAM disks have a much longer life than Blue ray. XDCAM - 50 years and Blue Ray the same as DVD's.
That's hearsay though and I don't know for sure.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 02:44 PM   #11
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The other consideration in all of this is burn time when archiving...

I understand a single-layer (25GB) Blu-Ray takes about 25 minutes to burn at 4x. This is probably almost an hour for a 50GB dual layer (if available).

Presumably the PMW-U1 will burn at the same 4x but that is only a guess.

So doing the rough math:

8GB SxS card = 30 minutes of HQ video.

90minutes of HQ Video = 1 Single Layer Blu-Ray = 25 minutes to burn.

VERSUS

DVD+R DL which takes approximately 15 minutes to do 8GB at 8x.



Very Approx. Pricing
25GB Blu-Ray disc = $15
8GB DVD+R DL disc = $1


90mins. of HQ Video on 1 Blu-Ray disc = $25 and takes 25 minutes to burn
90mins. of HQ Video on 3 DVD+R DL discs = $3 and takes 45 minutes to burn


Pondering...

SG
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Old May 21st, 2008, 02:45 PM   #12
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I guess the question to ask would be is the only difference the "case" or is the disc surface media and burn method "better."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard Levy View Post
I was under the impression that XDCAM disks have a much longer life than Blue ray. XDCAM - 50 years and Blue Ray the same as DVD's.
That's hearsay though and I don't know for sure.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 03:03 PM   #13
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Steve, good useful numbers there.

2.4x DL-DVD are burning at 4x for me and taking close to 30 minutes (double your listed 8x time which makes sense). If you're dealing with archival, the 2.4x discs are supposedly the best way to go. I'm using
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Old May 21st, 2008, 03:30 PM   #14
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And another consideration regarding pricing is that Blu-Ray disc will probably fall "towards" DVD levels eventually.

On the other hand, XDCAM-HD disc is a pro niche product and will likely always be priced higher.

Just a thought...

SG
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Old December 14th, 2010, 02:12 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Boston View Post
Well, there are differences Steve. Let's hope that your material archived to Blu-Ray disc is still accessible several years from now
I was archiving all my stills photographs to MO disks, as I was informed at the time these would keep the data safe for over 100 years. No doubt the pictures will be safe, the only problem is that my drive has given up on me and I can't buy a replacement.

I suspect the Sony UI is the more desireable drive to own, but will this be the new Betamax, Memory Stick, Super8 audio, Quad Stereo LP or other odd format, from Sony in years to come?

BlueRay disks would on the face of it be the better option. No doubt handling may present it's own set of problems over the years, but hey, I have a few tapes which have snarled up on me after a couple of play throughs
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