want bg out-of-focus: can I do this in 1080/24p? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 1st, 2008, 11:01 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 836
want bg out-of-focus: can I do this in 1080/24p?

Hi,
the reason for my question is that I just went through the Vortex 'How to Light' DVD, and Doug suggests shooting 1080/60i to get nice shallow depth of field for interviews (so the background is out-of-focus).
I pretty well have to shoot in 1080/24p, to get my stuff into Avid, so my question is, will this be o.k for getting shallow depth of field? Do I have to compensate somehow? (I think Doug's 'Lighting' DVD came out before the EX1 had been dreamed of, so for all I know 1080/24p will work just as well as 1080/60i. Thought I should check, though, since I'm shooting a few interviews this next week)
Thanks for any advice,
Malcolm
Malcolm Hamilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2008, 11:04 AM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Utrecht, NL | Europe 3rd Rock from the Sun
Posts: 612
Framerate has no impact on DoF.

George/
George Kroonder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2008, 11:09 AM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 498
DOF is determined by the iris setting and lens focal length and not by the shooting mode/frame rate (except that they affect the exposure, which can be compensated for using the iris).

You'll have the shortest depth of field if you use the longest focal length (81.2mm) and the widest aperture (f/1.9).

You can engage the ND filters or reduce you lighting to allow you to shoot wide open. Or set your gain at -3dB (this subtracts a stop, allowing you to open the lens).

Or use a higher shutter speed. This is less desirable, because, like shooting 60i, it will noticeably affect the look of you video.
Eric Pascarelli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2008, 11:15 AM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 836
Thanks very much, George and Eric. I'll try to have the iris wide open, and I'll put some space between the camera and my subject so I can be zoomed in when I frame up the interview shot; my gain will be -3dB.
Cheers,
Malcolm
Malcolm Hamilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2008, 11:26 AM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK
Posts: 4,957
Just be aware that some lenses can be a little soft when wide open. Most lenses are happiest between F8 and F4.

Having said that I often shoot wide open to get a shallow DOF. The EX1 lens is still reasonably sharp when fully open.
__________________
Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com
Alister Chapman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2008, 11:43 AM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 836
O.K.... maybe I'll try to err a bit to this side of wide open... between 2 and 4, for example (since you say the EX1 lens can handle it). Cheers Alister,
Malcolm
Malcolm Hamilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2008, 12:42 PM   #7
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Posts: 3,780
Malcolm, maybe you should watch the DVD again. Doug says he never uses interlace at all. There's a DOF indicator on the LCD which can be a help. In many circumstance using the ND filters can help decrease the light as needed when iris is wide.
Craig Seeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2008, 01:14 PM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Utrecht, NL | Europe 3rd Rock from the Sun
Posts: 612
Although mathematically true that DoF is shallowest at the long end of the lens, artistically this will be quite a different look from a wide(r) shot because of compression.

This is not the data-compression-type: at tele the image looks "squeezed together" and the background will look "blown up" (even if it is out of focus). This can work just fine, just depends on what look you're after.

George/
George Kroonder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2008, 01:54 PM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Seeman View Post
Malcolm, maybe you should watch the DVD again. Doug says he never uses interlace at all
Hi Craig,
I'm referring not to Doug's EX-1 DVD (in which he talks up progressive), but his 'How to Setup, Light Great-Looking Interviews'... I think I heard him say 1080/60i as the way to go re DOF. Of course, as I mentioned, I think this particular DVD pre-dates the EX-1, and all the 'p' choices available with it. I might be wrong. This is what made me worry, because, as I say, for Avid, I seem to have to shoot 1080/24p... which wasn't Doug's choice in either video.
I hope this setting is a good one. I've got my shutter speed set to 1/48.
cheers, Malcolm
Malcolm Hamilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2nd, 2008, 10:53 PM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 229
In my experience even with the iris open, zoomed in, and your subject a good bit away from the background, you only get a subtle blurring of the background (and the EX1 is better than anything in its class in this regard). To get that film-like shallow DOF, you really need an adapter such as the Letus.

Having said that, Magic Bullet Looks can give you some decent approximation. My interviews in this piece: http://vimeo.com/887582 or http://exposureroom.com/members/robc...87f1e91c3fc99/ were shot EX1 without adapter, and I used MB Looks edge softening and vignetting to blur the "background" -- of course, it's not really the background, as the background near the subject is still in focus. But until I get my Letus (soon hopefully), it'll have to do.
Rob Collins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2008, 02:57 AM   #11
Trustee
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 1,570
A black scrim between subject and background is one solution although care is needed. If the weave is too coarse you might get moire.
Bob Grant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2008, 04:38 PM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcolm Hamilton View Post
Hi Craig,
This is what made me worry, because, as I say, for Avid, I seem to have to shoot 1080/24p...
What Avid software are you using? Media Composer 2.8.3 accepts all EX1-resolutions and previous versions that can deal with HDV accepts 1080i.
Ola Christoffersson is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:17 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network