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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
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Old June 7th, 2008, 03:37 AM   #1
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ex3, Letus Utimate and Convergent Flash XDR

Hi,
For shooting a lowbudget movie beginning of next year, we need two cameras.
The result should be transferred to a 2K filmprint and a hd video master.

We are thinking about the following setup:

Sony EX3
with the the Letus Ultimate Adapter (using rented zeiss prime lenses)
and recording on the new convergent design flash xdr box (10 bit 4:2:2 160mbit/sec via HD-SDI)

Any opinions?
Will this be the best bang for the bug?
Thanks for any comment.
Holger
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Old June 7th, 2008, 09:22 AM   #2
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Hello Holger,

Yes, in my opinion, that looks like the best way to go.

Alles zer gut.

By the way, the phrase in english is "best bang for the buck"! (buck as in dollar)

Just thought I would point that out but am sure your English is way better than my German!
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Old June 7th, 2008, 09:30 AM   #3
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Oh, yes youre right "bang for the buck",

I think I was just remembering the hardcore adult xxx version of "bugs life".

Sorry for that, I tend to get more easily distracted since Im dealing with HD formats and compressions.

Argh.

Holger
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Old June 7th, 2008, 09:39 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holger Neuhaeuser View Post
Hi,
For shooting a lowbudget movie beginning of next year, we need two cameras.
The result should be transferred to a 2K filmprint and a hd video master.

We are thinking about the following setup:

Sony EX3
with the the Letus Ultimate Adapter (using rented zeiss prime lenses)
and recording on the new convergent design flash xdr box (10 bit 4:2:2 160mbit/sec via HD-SDI)

Any opinions?
Will this be the best bang for the bug?
Thanks for any comment.
Holger
Just remember the video is 8 bit. Sure the HD-SDI out is 10 bit but the Flash XDR unit uses mpeg2 and mpeg2 can only ever be 8 bit. This is not a bad thing of course, I just wanted to point this out in case you didn't know. I totally love the XDR unit and 160 mbit I frame mpeg2 files are really awesome and totally beat the pants off any 8 bit HD tape format excluding HDCAM SR but then again that isn't an 8 bit tape format and is a special case.
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Old June 7th, 2008, 10:16 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Holger Neuhaeuser View Post
Sorry for that, I tend to get more easily distracted since Im dealing with HD formats and compressions.
As we all do.

Please don't apologize. I have great respect for your ability to use an English speaking forum.
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Old June 7th, 2008, 10:29 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Thomas Smet View Post
Just remember the video is 8 bit. Sure the HD-SDI out is 10 bit but the Flash XDR unit uses mpeg2 and mpeg2 can only ever be 8 bit. This is not a bad thing of course, I just wanted to point this out in case you didn't know. I totally love the XDR unit and 160 mbit I frame mpeg2 files are really awesome and totally beat the pants off any 8 bit HD tape format excluding HDCAM SR but then again that isn't an 8 bit tape format and is a special case.
Thomas,

Converget Desing are promising to upgrade their Flash XDR to true 10bit 4:2:2 - how does it hold against your claim that mpeg2 HAS to be limited to just 8bits?

Just asking :)
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Last edited by Piotr Wozniacki; June 7th, 2008 at 11:18 AM.
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Old June 7th, 2008, 12:05 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
Convergent Desing are promising to upgrade their Flash XDR to true 10bit 4:2:2 - how does it hold against your claim that mpeg2 HAS to be limited to just 8bits?
I believe the XDR will be upgraded to do uncompressed, which will capture the full 10-bit output.

George/
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Old June 7th, 2008, 12:44 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by George Kroonder View Post
I believe the XDR will be upgraded to do uncompressed, which will capture the full 10-bit output.

George/
Ah, of course - silly me; being uncompressed, it doesn't need to be mpeg2-compliant any more :)
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Old June 7th, 2008, 01:03 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
being uncompressed, it doesn't need to be mpeg2-compliant any more :)
I'm not sure how they will do uncompressed, but if I recall correctly it needs the CF cards in RAID config and you'll need to read them from the XDR to offload.

If correct you'll need a good number of cards (they'll fill up quickly) and you can't re-use them before you've had time to offload then via the XDR (or a second unit maybe).

The 50/100Mb and maybe 160Mb I-Frame can be used without RAID and can be read by any CF card reader as I understand it to date.

George/

P.S. Convergent Design will share a stand at IBC in Amsterdam this september, Come One, Come All ;-)
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Old June 7th, 2008, 04:49 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by George Kroonder View Post
I'm not sure how they will do uncompressed, but if I recall correctly it needs the CF cards in RAID config and you'll need to read them from the XDR to offload.

If correct you'll need a good number of cards (they'll fill up quickly) and you can't re-use them before you've had time to offload then via the XDR (or a second unit maybe).

The 50/100Mb and maybe 160Mb I-Frame can be used without RAID and can be read by any CF card reader as I understand it to date.

George/

P.S. Convergent Design will share a stand at IBC in Amsterdam this september, Come One, Come All ;-)
Hi George-
Just to confirm, your understanding is 100% correct. In uncompressed 4:2:2 8/10-bit mode, we stripe the data across all four cards. So you'll need a handful of cards as they fill up quickly at this data-rate (about 1Gbps).

For almost all applications, the 100 Mbps Long-GOP or the 160 Mbps I-Frame only will be a more reasonable choice, with very little difference in overall quality. Of course there are some applications were uncompressed is an absolute requirement.

Looking forward to IBC where we will feature both the XDR and the upcoming nanoFlash.
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Old June 7th, 2008, 04:51 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Mike Schell View Post
Looking forward to IBC where we will feature both the XDR and the upcoming nanoFlash.
Hi Mike,

I was hoping for them being available before September!
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Old June 7th, 2008, 06:24 PM   #12
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another possibility ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holger Neuhaeuser View Post
Hi,
For shooting a lowbudget movie beginning of next year, we need two cameras.
The result should be transferred to a 2K filmprint and a hd video master.

We are thinking about the following setup:

Sony EX3
with the the Letus Ultimate Adapter (using rented zeiss prime lenses)
and recording on the new convergent design flash xdr box (10 bit 4:2:2 160mbit/sec via HD-SDI)

Any opinions?
Will this be the best bang for the bug?
Thanks for any comment.
Holger
I'm like the rest of you stumbling around trying to find a way to get that 4.2.2 out of the EX3.
The other obvious route is the Elite HD w/ swappable 2.5 SATA drives w/ 10 bit quantization. At this time, the max 2.5 drives running at 7200 are 320 I believe, so, this is one method that has a future. I don't like the $6,000 price tag on this unit and of course it hasn't been tested yet for all the flaws that will come to light (heat being a major one) but 4.2.2 10 bit is looking to be the goal on all these units.
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Old June 8th, 2008, 09:32 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
Hi Mike,

I was hoping for them being available before September!
Hi Piotr-
Sorry for the confusion, we plan to start shipments of Flash XDR this month and the nanoFlash by 1-Sep.
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Old June 10th, 2008, 02:37 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holger Neuhaeuser View Post
Hi,
We are thinking about the following setup:

Sony EX3
with the the Letus Ultimate Adapter (using rented zeiss prime lenses)
and recording on the new convergent design flash xdr box (10 bit 4:2:2 160mbit/sec via HD-SDI)
Nice idea for a set up. Which CF cards will you go for? And how many dozens!

Also, this same set up would seem to conform to most HD broadcast requirements too.
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Old June 10th, 2008, 04:10 AM   #15
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Nice idea for a set up. Which CF cards will you go for? And how many dozens!

Also, this same set up would seem to conform to most HD broadcast requirements too.
I think 4 sandisk 8 GB IV Cards are 25 minutes with 4:2:2 160 mbit/s which equals roundabout 400 Euro per half an hour

or, if you are going for 100 mbit

4 sandisk 16GB extreme III cards are 85 minutes with 4:2:2 100mbit/s which equals 360 Euro per one and a half hours.

Sounds pretty good to me.
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