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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old June 18th, 2008, 07:28 PM   #16
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Probably we should differentiate between clipping and over-exposed. Data is lost in clipping, whereas over-exposed is more of a judgement that a region of interest has been given too much. Skin tone rendition is quite sensitive to exposure so possibly we should be considering RGB response curves rather than the total (as in my curves). On those curves, it may be of interest to consider the image brightness region of 60-70% and transfer that via the gamma curves to subject brightness, and so see the effect of working with one or other curve. How does that affect skin tone rendition? For now that's a question that I'm thinking about!
In the general context, how much compression of highlights is too much? If you cannot recover in post what you want, then too much. There is a big difference between shooting for post and shooting for direct display.
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Old June 18th, 2008, 07:33 PM   #17
 
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y......a......w.....n
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Old June 18th, 2008, 11:22 PM   #18
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Hmmm...........
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Old June 18th, 2008, 11:42 PM   #19
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C'mon Bill,


Is this conversation really dumber than the average thread on this board?
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Old June 19th, 2008, 01:08 AM   #20
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C'mon Bill,


Is this conversation really dumber than the average thread on this board?
How about the settings Levy? Thanks.

To Bill: Don't get your nose too high. Sky is a busy space. A plane might just hit you in the head.
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Old June 19th, 2008, 08:02 AM   #21
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Who is Bill Ravens? ;)
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Old June 19th, 2008, 09:08 AM   #22
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Old June 19th, 2008, 09:19 AM   #23
 
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changes in attitude, changes in latitude

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Old June 19th, 2008, 10:11 AM   #24
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Just a kind request - please enlighten me, instead of

y......a......w.....n

-ing
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Old June 19th, 2008, 11:39 AM   #25
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I don't what the history of your beef is with each other guys, or Bill's is with the discussion here, but these forums only work if a certain level of respect is maintained. Please pay attention to your attitude.
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Old June 19th, 2008, 12:26 PM   #26
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I don't what the history of your beef is with each other guys, or Bill's is with the discussion here, but these forums only work if a certain level of respect is maintained. Please pay attention to your attitude.
You're right, Lenny.
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Old June 19th, 2008, 01:39 PM   #27
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Personal attacks apart, you got me thinking about the standard gammas Levy. I would still be interested in the settings you are using, if you don't mind. Thanks.
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Old June 19th, 2008, 02:02 PM   #28
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Here goes from memory though as I don't have the camera near.- This is basically just a variation on "out of the box" so that the basic look works correctly.

Std gamma 3
Black - 6
matrix - I haven't played with enough yet - I tend to use hi sat but maybe normal sat with some elevated red is better. My buddy likes to use Bill Raven's matrix settings but scaled back quite a bit.

Low sat + 9 ( I thought the sat in the low areas was too flat so I picked it up)

Knee I think was 92 or 93 with slope 0 and no change to knee sat. I think I tried slope a little higher and liked it ( +12 or so?) but I lost that setting and don't remember it.
(I don't like the auto knee - its very aggressive which is fine except that if you pan past bright objects the compression will change in the middle of the shot - not good and not like any auto knee I ever used before.)

no change to black gamma

There's nothing brilliant or carefully tested about this though. Maybe I'll end up changing it later. I haven't done nearly as much work with the camera as I'd like yet.
I was just looking for a standard set-up I could use in any situation. I could imagine going to a Cine gamma for some exteriors esp without people.

If you try it let me know how it compares to what you have been doing. I need to play with settings more.

Lenny
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Old June 19th, 2008, 08:58 PM   #29
 
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my sincerest apologies for being so intolerant.
I do my best to share, even if I can be wrong from time to time. Approaching such a widely variable camera as the EX1 is both a challenge and a continuous learning experience. It's somewhat unfortunate that Sony Corp. takes such a whimsical attitude as they do, but, they do what they do. I suppose that leaves the user to muddle thru the best way to use what they gave us.

There really are two user communities, I think. One is run-and-gun, the other is stage production, or something like that, where time and thought can go into the shoot. Certainly understanding the infinite detail of a camera's application has value. Yet, when you're shooting in the field, you go with what you can get.

Ansel Adams, whom I'm sure you all recognize as a famous photographer, was a technical genius. Yet one of his most famous shots, "Moon over Hernandez", which was shot very close to where I live, was taken by instinct, because the sun was setting, the moon rising, and there was no time for analysis of the setup.

That's my point. I am sorry that my one word response to this thread was intimidating to some, and yes, even rude. And I don't mean to belittle the concerted effort by many to understand the workings of the EX1. But, I am discovering, even in the world of commercial cinema, there are problems that overshadow the desire to deliver the minutest of technical correctness/exactness. I suppose a really good DP, just knows this stuff in his/her sleep without needing to analyze it ad infinitum. But, I, for one, still need to be analytical, methodical and deliberate. My own workflow is to understand the camera well enough that I can shoot from the hip and get back to my editing studio with footage that is usable in post. I may not squeeze that final bit of dynamic range out of the cam, but, I won't blow the hi-lights. I think I'd much rather crush the blacks, but, perfect exposure is a fleeting goal in all but the most controlled of lighting scenarios.

Sorry for the diatribe, and for hijacking this thread. My apologies. Perhaps it's a good thing I'm more of an editor than a videographer.

Last edited by Bill Ravens; June 19th, 2008 at 10:30 PM.
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Old June 19th, 2008, 10:23 PM   #30
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My apologies.
I go along with your view that equipment is for making films rather than for analysis. One needs to understand how to get the needed results, and generally that comes with experience rather than through technical review of every little thing. In some instances debate about certain aspects goes off in unhelpful directions, and then it can be useful to try to put a floor under the discussion.
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