Using Detail at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 28th, 2008, 06:35 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Norfolk, UK
Posts: 627
Using Detail

I've been doing some experimenting with leaving the detail part of my picture profiles turned off, I understand that adding sharpening at the end of the effects chain is better but the side effect of not using the detail setting seems to be that the peaking function rarely helps. This seems especially true when trying to focus on faces, with detail off I'm really struggling due to the lack of peaking and less obvious correct focus due to softer images.

Do you guys shoot with detail on or off?

Paul.
__________________
Blog: www.pauljoy.com
Company: www.videotrader.co.uk
Paul Joy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2008, 06:54 AM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 498
Always off.
Eric Pascarelli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2008, 08:47 AM   #3
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 2,053
Detail can make some skin look really bad. Experimentation might give you a better idea but I turn it off.

Same with sharpening. Off. I do a lot of green screen work and sharpening creates its own set of problems.
__________________
Dean Sensui
Exec Producer, Hawaii Goes Fishing
Dean Sensui is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2008, 10:31 AM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Viersen, Germany
Posts: 120
Picture quality of EX1 becomes much worse when Detail is set to on.
It completely looses its organic look and looks almost like cheap video if detail is set ON.

So always keep Detail set OFF if you don't like that videoish look.
It doesn't help with sharpness either, it only adds some bad looking contour and even washing-out effects when cripening is on... very ugly.


Dennis
Dennis Schmitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2008, 12:50 PM   #5
Trustee
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 1,684
I don't think there's any consensus about the detail settings except don't go above "0".
Some people turn them off, some just set lower than "0" and I've had perfectly good results at "0" as well. If you turn it too low though it gets softer than " off" and that's not good.

For those setting to "off" - what kind of monitor are you using?

Lenny Levy
Leonard Levy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2008, 12:57 PM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Viersen, Germany
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard Levy View Post
I don't think there's any consensus about the detail settings except don't go above "0".
Some people turn them off, some just set lower than "0" and I've had perfectly good results at "0" as well. If you turn it too low though it gets softer than " off" and that's not good.

For those setting to "off" - what kind of monitor are you using?

Lenny Levy
I'm using a 26" NEC (2690 WuXI) and a 40" Sony V3000.
With Detail=On (Level=0) the picture doesn't contain any more Detail, there are only more artifacts, very harsh double contours and stronger contrast...


Dennis
Dennis Schmitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2008, 03:50 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Norfolk, UK
Posts: 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Schmitz View Post
Picture quality of EX1 becomes much worse when Detail is set to on.
It completely looses its organic look and looks almost like cheap video if detail is set ON.
I'm not sure I'd go that far, I've had detail turned on so far (set to 0) and it does do a good job of making the images look more detailed, I wouldn't say my footage to date looks like cheap video, although I can understand that too much sharpening would have that effect.
__________________
Blog: www.pauljoy.com
Company: www.videotrader.co.uk
Paul Joy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2008, 04:11 PM   #8
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 1,866
I agree with Leonard, there is no concensus. The "always off" advocates are not the ones to be commenting about detail because it's "always off" for them, and probably has been since the first day. Expect the inevitable denials, that their scientific tests have conclusively proved that by using detail on you will tear holes in the universe, or that their post compression NLE unsharp mask workflow is better. Nonsense.

Sony provides you with 8 adjustable detail parameters, giving you literally millions of control possibilities. They would not waste your time on them if they couldn't provide professional quality creative control. And they do. It's in-cam, pre-compression, fully adjustable and highly effective.

I use different profiles for 60i than I do for 24p, because 60i uses dual row summation of the fields. The sharpening effect needs to be tailored accordingly.
Tom Roper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2008, 04:16 PM   #9
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 1,866
And Paul, as for the peaking function not being effective with detail off, have you tried changing the peaking level, to mid or high?
Tom Roper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2008, 05:16 PM   #10
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: santa fe, nm
Posts: 3,264
Images: 10
Initially, I left DETAIL to "ON" with the LEVEL set to "0". I began to notice a lot of horizontal "twitter"/"flicker" in my SD downconverts from the EX1. I have, since, turned DETAIL to "OFF" and, while not totally eliminated, SD downconverts are much, much better.
Bill Ravens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2008, 10:12 PM   #11
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 39
When I use my Letus Extreme on the EX1, I have detail ON for many of the profiles I use. Always OFF without the Letus though.

Scott K.
Scott Karlins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2008, 11:43 AM   #12
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 1,267
I haven't been shooting much with the EX series yet but the detail question is definitely a question with most cameras. Just because the number is set to 0 doesn't mean there is no detail being added when it is on. This is just the manufacturers normal setting which is often not the best for many situations. The best way to determine which settings you like is to play with the setting while looking at a great display and then check on a lower quality display as well. Often there is a setting I find I like which is less than the manufacturers normal but more than completely off on most cameras. The reason to turn it completely off can be related to your output like if you are going to go to film as opposed to DVD only. Or the specs from the network you are shooting for guide you.
Daniel Epstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2008, 01:57 PM   #13
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 462
So if 0 is the default and you can set detail so that it is softer than OFF. What setting equals OFF?
Ola Christoffersson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2008, 02:10 PM   #14
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Viersen, Germany
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola Christoffersson View Post
So if 0 is the default and you can set detail so that it is softer than OFF. What setting equals OFF?
Level=-30 up to -40 seems to be "OFF".


Dennis
Dennis Schmitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2008, 02:29 PM   #15
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK
Posts: 4,957
I normally run between -10 and -15. I choose this level as even on large monitors the edge enhancement is just about invisible while there is still enough that the images still have some "punch". As much of what I shoot gets sold as stock footage I am looking for a balance between the punchy "wow" factor and the more natural un enhanced look. If I was producing for film transfer I would probably run with it off. For an HD corporate I might have it at 0 for more punch.

Yes I also see a reduction in Peaking which is not surprising as the peaking signal is derived from areas of high contrast and detail correction creates localized areas of high contrast in high frequency parts of the picture.
__________________
Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com
Alister Chapman is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:33 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network