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Old July 18th, 2008, 05:46 PM   #1
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What do they mean with "shutter off" ? :)

Hi :)

what exactly is ment when the shutter is set to off. ?

I mean, of course there is a shutter involved or we wouldn't get moving pictures ...
So ist this maybe 1/25 for 25p ? Which means in general: shutter like the framerate ?

Thanks for any idea ...

Peter
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Old July 18th, 2008, 05:51 PM   #2
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Correct. Shutter off (on the EX1) means that at 25p the shutter is 1/25.

At 24p it's 1/24, etc.
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Old July 18th, 2008, 06:25 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Eric Pascarelli View Post
Correct. Shutter off (on the EX1) means that at 25p the shutter is 1/25.

At 24p it's 1/24, etc.

Can someone confirm this?
I've heard this said many times and yet the slowest shutter I can get on the EX1 is 1/60 in SP shooting 50i. The manual indicates that in HQ the slowest shutter speed at 24/25p is 1/33 and yet the largest shutter angle is 180deg.
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Old July 18th, 2008, 06:42 PM   #4
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The slowest settable shutters with the shutter "on" are as you stated in your post.

To get the longer shutter times (equal to the frame rate), turn the shutter off. This gives a 360° shutter (very slightly less, actually).

I have confirmed this with my own tests, long ago, for the EX1 and this is fairly common in other cameras.
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Old July 18th, 2008, 08:57 PM   #5
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What Eric said. Shutter off = no shutter = frame rate. If you are shooting 25 frames per second, you have an exposure time of 1/25 sec in shutter off mode.

-gb-
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Old July 18th, 2008, 10:09 PM   #6
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"What Eric said. Shutter off = no shutter = frame rate. If you are shooting 25 frames per second, you have an exposure time of 1/25 sec in shutter off mode."

What's the effect of the shutter angle settings on this?
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Old July 18th, 2008, 11:18 PM   #7
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The shutter off is a complete bug. Hopefully, Sony will make shutter OFF as 1/48th in 24P mode. The problem comes when you engage the fully automatic controls, which puts the shutter at 1/24 (360 degrees) which is completely wrong when shooting in 24P mode. Why Sony did this is beyond stupid. I hope they come with a firmware fix for this glaring issue.
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Old July 18th, 2008, 11:37 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Ian Holb View Post
The shutter off is a complete bug. Hopefully, Sony will make shutter OFF as 1/48th in 24P mode. The problem comes when you engage the fully automatic controls, which puts the shutter at 1/24 (360 degrees) which is completely wrong when shooting in 24P mode. Why Sony did this is beyond stupid. I hope they come with a firmware fix for this glaring issue.
Sorry, that's incorrect. It's not a bug. It's the way higher end cameras work. The EX borrows from it's higher end siblings of the broadcast world. Granted, it has only been the past few years that high end video cameras shot anything other than 60i/NTSC or 50i/PAL where a 1/60 or 1/50 shutter (ie no shutter... switch off) is considered the norm.

Professional video cameras have a shutter on/off switch. It works as it's supposed to. It does not work the way consumer cameras tend to work.

Once again, turning off or disabling the shutter means your exposure is equal to the frame rate, aka 360 degree shutter. It works the same way on my F350 camera.

-gb-
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Old July 19th, 2008, 05:42 AM   #9
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OK, I just had a play around with this.

a) It works as described by several people here in 1080/25p. It'd be nice if the manual managed to get the story straight.

b) In 1080/25p I can select shutter speeds of 1/33, 1/50, 1/60 and 1/100 etc. If I'm in 1/33 and switch Shutter Mode to Angle exposure jumps up as the camera changes to 180deg when it should be 270deg but that's not even an option.

To add to my confusion the Shutter On/Off switch is disabled in Full Menu mode and there's also control through the TLCS menu. I think I need to spend more time with this, the interaction of several controls and the lack of clear documentation can be bewildering in the heat of the moment.
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Old July 19th, 2008, 09:01 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark OConnell View Post
"What Eric said. Shutter off = no shutter = frame rate. If you are shooting 25 frames per second, you have an exposure time of 1/25 sec in shutter off mode."

What's the effect of the shutter angle settings on this?
None. The shutter angle concept applies only when the shutter is on. Shutter off = 360 shutter.

I agree with the above posts that the shutter angle has too few options. It would be nice to have 220, for example. But if you want extra options, such as angles greater than 180, use the shutter time mode instead.
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 08:03 AM   #11
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sssssooooooo

soooo
what combination of shutters and shutter angles are people using
and to what effect?

just starting to get my read around the way shutter controls work in video cameras but it's still confusing

any tips??
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 08:44 AM   #12
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the norm for me, and I think most is:
1/48 shutter for 24p
and 1/60 for 30p

but I use shutter off to gain a stop of light without activating gain in certain conditions. There will be more motion blur but I find in many cases the motion blur is preferable to extra gain.
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 10:07 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Holb View Post
The shutter off is a complete bug. Hopefully, Sony will make shutter OFF as 1/48th in 24P mode. The problem comes when you engage the fully automatic controls, which puts the shutter at 1/24 (360 degrees) which is completely wrong when shooting in 24P mode. Why Sony did this is beyond stupid. I hope they come with a firmware fix for this glaring issue.
That would incorrect -- shutter off means no shutter, so at 24P, that would be 1/24th.

1/48th at 24P definitely involves using a shutter, a 180 degree one in spinning mechanical film shutter angle terms. So it would make no logical sense for a camera set to shutter OFF to actually set the shutter ON. OFF is OFF, no shutter, i.e. a 360 degree shutter, 1/24th at 24P.
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