Need Advice Using a DVD Recorder w/ EX footage

[L.J. Morelli]

I often need to make a copy of my raw footage for my clients. In the past, I'd just play out of my timeline into the recorder.

Does anyone see a problem doing it that way with the EX stuff. The flow will be firewire into a media converter, then S-VHS cable into the recorder.

What aspect ratio will be recorded? Full 16.9? Letterboxed 16.9? Or will I get a 4.3 image (sides being cut off).

I guess I can test this myself, but my new HD set up isn't near my regular SD set up. And was wondering if anyone knew what I was in for before I rearrange everything. Thanks.

[Michael Sims]

I record time coded SD DVDs from my EX-1 to a DVD recorder using the AV output on the camera. I shoot everything in 1080 30p and end up with a letterbox image on the DVD with the time code in the upper right corner. Except for the time code of course, I turn off all the various data items I normally have visible in the lcd display. I don't worry about the picture quality on the DVD, so the composite video out is fine. My clients know everything is in HD and are just using the DVD to pick time codes.

[L.J. Morelli]

So, you're coming out of the camera. I already have erased cards. All footage in NLE. Any other suggestions anybody?

[L.J. Morelli]

Any other suggestions to output into a DVD recorder, to make raw footage copy for clients?

I just did an HD to SD raw conversion, in DVD Studio Pro. I exported a reference movie, and brought it into DVDsp. In preferences, just had to change the aspect ratio, and a few other settings. Though, final output looked a little progressive. It was shot 1080i. Odd.

[Matt Davis]

Originally Posted by L.J. Morelli

Though, final output looked a little progressive. It was shot 1080i. Odd.

Except that each interlaced field of the 1080i would get mashed together in the down-convert to SD. I think the internal Z1 downconvert did some spooky stuff converting 1080i to SD Progressive 50/60p, then reinterlacing it.

If you were to connect a Sony M-15 deck (or even a Z1 or A1) to your 1080i (aka HDV) FCP Sequence via FireWire, the deck will downconvert for you. You can then take the deck's S-Video output to a DVD-Recorder, so you can record real-time HDV to SD, and if you have the horsepower, include BITC too.

FWIW, the deck does the same thing to 720p EX1 footage too. Don't ask me how, I just make the patches.

[L.J. Morelli]

[QUOTE=Matt Daviss;911849]Except that each interlaced field of the 1080i would get mashed together in the down-convert to SD. I think the internal Z1 downconvert did some spooky stuff converting 1080i to SD Progressive 50/60p, then reinterlacing it.

What do you mean? What internal Z1 downconvert? All I did was make a reference movie from the timeline, and brought that into DVDsp to make my SD DVD

[Matt Davis]

Originally Posted by L.J. Morelli

What internal Z1 downconvert? All I did was make a reference movie from the timeline, and brought that into DVDsp to make my SD DVD

Okay, gotcha. That's our starting point.

Let's rewind to the get-go. Here's a rather more bullet-proof method:

- Export your movie from FCP as a self contained movie
- Encode your movie to DVD @ 120 min High Quality using Compressor
- Drag the M2V and AAC files to DVDSP's assets window
- Put both files onto Track 1
- With track one selected, make the end of track play 'track 1' so it loops
- In the Outline, select the DVD icon, and in the inspector, make the 'first play' track 1
- Build and Burn.

What you'll get is a DVD that will play your movie over and over again when you first insert the DVD.

What you have is Compressor's best compression from your movie.

If you just export a reference movie, DVDSP will do a 'lowest commond denominator' job on your movie, and probably mess up when you've used transitions.

When you're comfortable with this, use Compressor's 'Enable Frame Controls' to do Better in most cases. If you shoot in 720 50/60p, Compressor will re-interlace to make your Standard Def (NTSC or PAL) look like 'proper' interlaced video.

I heartily recommend Ripple Training's Compressor training product. Not the most exciting title, I'd admit - until you get the big 'aha's about how it works and what you can do.

Next step is to do the same 'make movie self contained' but re-render everything to ProRes422, and lots more tweaks if you use motion graphics.

[L.J. Morelli]

Thanks for that info. What if I have over 2 hrs. After all, this is just so clients can view raw footage. That's why I want to use a DVD recorder.

What is this Z1 down convert you spoke of? Still not clear.

And you've had bad luck w/ reference movies? I don't think I ever had a problem with them, or maybe I don't know I've had problems.

[Matt Davis]

Originally Posted by L.J. Morelli

you've had bad luck w/ reference movies? I don't think I ever had a problem with them, or maybe I don't know I've had problems.

As editing complexity grows, it *will* come back and bite you. It will mix up your renders. It will treat motion graphics like DV. It may even get confused and mislay your audio sync. You may not have had problems yet, but as soon as you do, go for a self contained movie. It is the Canonical way. It is the Reliable way. Trust me (and the other thousands that rely on it).

Originally Posted by L.J. Morelli

What if I have over 2 hrs.

If you have over two hours, go for the 150 minute option. Don't go over three hours unless you feed analogue video into a DVD-Recorder with encoding hardware. See next point.

Originally Posted by L.J. Morelli

What is this Z1 down convert you spoke of? Still not clear.

Z1 camcorders, M15 decks and perhaps Z7 camcorders (haven't got a Z7) will down-convert HDV at FireWire to Standard Definition on the fly, live and in real time. So you can feed an HDV sequence out of Final Cut into a Z1/HDV deck/Maybe a Z7 via firewire, and it will output Standard Definition, which you can plug into a DVD-R recorder. It does the downconvert in hardware. All you need do is record the Z1/Deck/Z7 video output in PAL or NTSC onto a DVD-R in real time, and you're done.

For EX1 users listening in, I've found that the deck also does this with 720p footage. Which is a result.

[L.J. Morelli]

For EX1 users listening in, I've found that the deck also does this with 720p footage. Which is a result.[/QUOTE]


Not 1080i?

[L.J. Morelli]

Matt, or anyone, can't you just do File---Export Using Compressor, instead of making a self contained movie, first?

[Matt Davis]

Originally Posted by L.J. Morelli

Matt, or anyone, can't you just do File---Export Using Compressor, instead of making a self contained movie, first?

You can, but there are certain circumstances which make the 'habit' of doing a full export as self contained 'good hygene' - flattening the movie out, re-rendering to a higher depth codec, hoofing the movie over to a different computer to compress, taking the movie to a separate venue, sorting out sync issues with multi-format timelines, and so on.

I like having the ease, simplicity, reliability and quality of a fresh self contained movie to work on.

More importantly for me, it means I can do other things during compression (like getting on with other edits!). Sending out directly from FCP ties the machine up.

[Matt Davis]

Originally Posted by L.J. Morelli

Not 1080i?

Yes, 1080i too. But I'm kinda 'over' interlaced footage as my outputs are all strictly progressive.

[L.J. Morelli]

Good input about the self contained movie, thanks. About the 1080i comment. What about 1080p?

[Paul Newman]

Does FCP output an HDV stream from the timeline - Realtime? How.

Paul